realism plus a pinch of idealism

ebbtide176 · Dec 15, 2003

i was driving home and wondering how one person could help condense an important part of life, just to help explain it to a young person. you know, everyone has times when they imagine themselves being in a position to help coach a child, whether its your nephew, or neice, or a neighborhood dropout... i want to put myself in the place of a person with no understanding of politics... and be as vanilla (neutral) as possible. i want to bring up positive & negative points with everything, so someone can better understand how to put theirself in another's shoes, so to speak... how to generalize on things? -- generalized concern for the individual over the group - generalized concern for the group over the individual * that is my 1st thought of liberal(--) vs conservative(-), in order of listing. -- the people should help those who are unable to help themselves, and this will be mandatory, which is a part of the governmental control - the people should help those who are unable to help themselves, but is only by volunteer act, which is not mandatory, and the government cannot enforce it -- plants & animals are held with the same esteem, honor and importance as a human - plants & animals are secondary to the importance of a human [ok, this is only some of the things popping up for me now, please add to the list, and everyone can list their thoughts, just be nice, and follow the flow of the topic] or just post this is a lame topic, and we can let it die

lol

boatingfool · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

I like, Your on the right track here..........

snapperbait · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Liberal.. Tax, then spend... Conservative.. Spend, then tax...

pretty close?

boatingfool · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Lib- Everyone has to conform to my thinking or they are an outdated racist bigot. Conservative- Everyone is welcome but you dont have to jump up and down everytime someone who doesnt know you walks by to tell them what you believe in. And you are not a racist Bigot if your views are different than mine.

two2canoe · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Conservative- Think like me or I'll call you a D--- Liberal. Liberal- Think like me or I'll call you a D--- Conservative. Why all the "us vs. them" in this country? What am I, a liberal conservative or a conservative liberal? There's good in both view points but neither is all good.

JB · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Labels are bull. Some parrott what they hear from others without thinking, (I call that cut and paste politics), some think out issues to form independent positions that conform to neither label all the time.

SoulWinner · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Spinner, It's more like this: Dem: Tax then spend Conservative: Spend, then have budget deficits untill the Dems force a through a tax increase in a piece of legislation that you REALLY want passed. ( the way they screwed Bush Sr. on his "read my lips " statement.) The Dems forced thru the legislation with the tax increase, then crucified him for it. Typical Dem BS. Remember, it's the Dems that have convinced folks that budget deficits will bankrupt their future generations; they don't even care that thier taxes are bankrupting current generations.

SS MAYFLOAT · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

I'm not big on political knowledge, but I have always wondered how many politicians would continue to work without a paycheck? It's weird that our forefathers did the work as a part time job mostly without pay. The US citizens have been snowballed into paying them high paying saleries just for running their mouths!. At least that is the way I look at it. SS

rodbolt · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

hello ss mayfloat I agree with ya on that. our forefathers would be spinning in the grave if they knew how much we spend on politicians salery. should be a term cap of 4 years max for all politicians and no salary just expenses. and by all means NO retired pay for carreer politicians. that would get rid of so many politicians that have their own power base and agenda's. the Janklow case is like some of the Kennedy case's. to long in politics and they thought they were a god. I really hope they fry Janklow like they would if it had been me cruising about like that.

plywoody · Dec 15, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

You are right, JB. Labels are bull, and intelectually lazy forms of argument. And I do love that argument, SW! It is apparently ok with you to bankrupt future generations as long as it does not affect the current one. That is indeed an interesting long term economic strategy. Unfortunately, you are not the only one that subscribes to it, as we seem to be spending like drunken sailors, while at the same time cutting taxes and revenues. We just passed this 400 billion drug bill, I just heard we are putting together some sort of funding to allow low-income people to get a break of up to $5,000 on a down payment for a new home-and on and on and on... Now these are all noble goals, perhaps, even if I don't like how they were structured or implemented, but someone sometime somewhere has to pay for them, I am afraid. It is an interesting theory, however. Buy votes now, and let the next administration worry about the consequences. Sadly, in the short term, it will probably work.

oddjob · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

PW...it worked for CLinton SoulWinner, I think you meant Snapper? JB

Labels are bull. Some parrott what they hear from others without thinking, (I call that cut and paste politics), some think out issues to form independent positions that conform to neither label all the time.

When I was younger, I would have agreed with ya on that. He77, I'm sorry to say that I would have voted for clinton(first term) if I had had a voter card at the time. But like it or not the things that are most important to me are checks and balances. Functional budgits and so forth. The method for keeping the checks and balances figuratively speaking...is the constitution...Liberals want to change the constitution and the checks and balances. Just like I have to debate with my wife about bouncing a check or incurring and overdraft at the bank, The (constitution) in this example is in the check book instructions and the policies of the banks protocol. In this situation my wife would be the liberal-label and I would be the conservative(notice how I'm the good guy)

. Now the wife does not usually follow the protocol. She doesnt maintain good records in her checking and atm use. Her credit is a joke and she cant keep an account open very long. I prefer that she uses cash only. But for the poor "kids" sake she feels she needs to have access to money on demand and *****es daily that I will not let her keep joint credit cards/account with me and so forth. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. It's to much work on my part and costs me and the "kids" money/interest and overdraft charges. Many times the liberal, rather than take the initiative to keep her budgit/money managable prefers to take risks with it that cost us and the "kids" even more money. Because I pay the bills, I'll repeat....because I pay the bills, I have to be in control of the money. And I hand her cash on demand. She cannot, or will not, do this important task and resents me that she has to ask me for money. I am a mean and bad conservative who wont spend money I dont have or cannot produce a plan to pay back (creditors). See JB the conservative in this example is the really the good guy

. And thats why I like to be called one. It is a compliment. It is not a lable but an adjective. JB this example is black(conservative) and white(liberal). The only thing gray here is someone who will tell us that neither is right or wrong in their beliefs or behavor. So both behavors stand and the result is that it will cost my family more money because the illresponsible party will continue the negative behavor.

So to me the ones on the fence(if they vote) are just as dangerous as the liberals. Because they are either not paying attention or are ignorant of what is going on.

I know that this is only one example, but I believe life is realy this simple. It is the reckless that makes things complicated.

Hey yall I'm I making any sense here?

Its funny how a liberal politicain has to say to the folks on the fence that I'm a bigot or I'm starving children or old folks to insult, slander coerce the truth in order to sway opinion of me. See because conservative is good and I'm proud to be one. But to insult a liberal/democrate, all you have to do is LABLE them as one....Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,....He, he...cough..@#%&..hack...tears.ah..umh.....

LadyFish · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Its really very simple: 1) True conservatives: Believe in God Liberals: Only mention God when followed by His attributed last name, Dam Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 2) True conservatives: Defend the Constituion Liberals: Defend only those parts of the Constitution that they have warped to support their political agenda Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 3) True conservatives: Are pro 2nd ammendment Liberals: Would repeal the Second Amendment if they could Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 4) True conservatives: Believe in American soverignty Liberals: Believe in One-World government and in surrendering US sovereignty to UN control Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 5) True conservatives: Loves freedom Liberals: Love freedom except when conservatives avail themselves of it Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 6) True conservatives: Believes in what the flag stands for Liberals: **** on and burn the flag Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 7) True conservatives: Believes one is innocent until proven guilty Liberals: Believe that the seriousness of the charge is far more important than the facts of the case, and that the motivation behind a crime is as relevant as the nature of the crime Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 8) True conservatives: Believes in State's rights Liberals: Believe in State's rights except in the matters of abortion and education and guns and... and... Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 9) True conservatives: Believes that police should be a part of the local community Liberals: believe that the police are pigs... until someone mugs a liberal Moderates: have no definite opinion either way 10) True conservatives: Believes the government is accoutable to the people Liberals: Believe that the people are accountable to the government, and that the bigger government is, the better it is for the people Moderates: have no definite opinion either way Pigeon-holing people is a practice reserved for the left, who do so because they want well-defined groups that can be manipulated by stirring up distrust and hatred between them, for the ultimate goal of political gain.

Carphunter · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

Leave it up to the well spoken Ladyfish to say it like it should be said! Again, I agree Ladyfish, and I will not even attempt to add to what you have said.

KennyKenCan · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

LadyFish does it again! Well said!

ebbtide176 · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

i guess JB's post is a checkmark on labelling

this as a lame topic - lol i didn't want this to be a troll topic, i was hoping everyone would post a positive view of each side of the political spectrum. i thought my description of a liberal view could be seen as positive and negative, and was just a description, not a label. it helped me to understand things when i came into this forum, and kids will end up needing to know what those descriptions mean. like a fast/slow car, bright/pale color, etc. it gave me some laughs reading the replies anyway

JB · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

EBB, I admire your optimism, but I think it is unlikely that anyone can see the good points of BOTH sides. I call myself a Libertarian just to avoid getting into futile arguments over issues on which neither I nor my adversary will bend. LadyFish. I agree with most of your definitions, but your definitions prove my point: Few people who think will fall always on one side. What do you call them, then, Libatives? Conserverals?

The best men and women I know are their own sort, neither right nor left wing, but very clear in what they think. .. definitely not "moderates"

ebbtide176 · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

10-4 on that JB. here and now, it may be futile. but i didn't know i held some liberal views until skinny enlightened me. i may just be independant

i imagine no one fits perfectly into a mould for one side, or they may not be following their own convictions. but at least we could understand what to expect by discussing it. since these good people can take a boating-knowledge-challenged person

and help them become DIY-empowered

, i thought maybe they could help paraphrase these various political descriptions

DJ · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

I do not like labels either, but they pretty well describe the folks that call themselves by those labels. Liberal: The equal distribution of misery. Moderate: Standing in the middle of the road will get you run over. Conservative: The unequal distribution of happiness. Remember, the constitution allows for the "pursuit of happiness", not the guarentee of it.

Skinnywater · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

We could use a third party for true Conservatives and moderate Libertarians.

pjc · Dec 16, 2003

Re: realism plus a pinch of idealism

SkinnyW-the reality is that we DO have an unofficial third party--we call them District Courts and ultimatly the Supreme Court. Be mindful that weather Republican or Democrat prez.- same seeks to place Justices who will follow their idiology. I am frustrated to no end that when the minority party or activists, lobbiests,-whatever-can not have their way--the issue is thrown to the courts. It is now to the point where the bench is actually enacting new law or modifying existing law--sickening imo-- The United States Constitution reads majority rule-PERIOD.

realism plus a pinch of idealism

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