Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

[cyber]

Getting ready to replace stringers, transom, & deck.

Getting a migraine trying to sort through so many great threads!!

Couple o' questions??

a) Fiberglass 'cloth' or 'mat'??

b) Best type of resin to use??

Thanx in advance!!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

I'd use polyester resin and a combination of 1.5 oz mat, 8 oz mat, and 1708 biaxial cloth.

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Thanx-a-bunch WOG!!

So I guess polyester "laminating" resin??

And could you expand a little on the 2 types of mat & 1 cloth??
What type is used for what purpose??

Thanx again!!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Yep, and get the UN-Waxed so you won't have to sand between coats. You're gunna need about 5 gallons to start.

1,5 oz is used when laminating the transom pieces together and the stringers if needed. 8 oz is used to tab the transom, stingers and deck to the hull, and the 1708 is used as the final layer for everything.

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

That's fantastic WOG!!! Thanx again!!!

WOW!! 5 gallons to start??!!??
Guess this is gonna set me back a few bux, eh??

Did I mention its only a 14' Thundercraft??

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

No you didn't but check this out

http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-68/Fiberglass-Information,-and-How/Detail

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

OK, just to clarify: the 1.5 oz. mat is to be used between the two 3/4" pieces of my transom, and how for the stringers?
(P.S.: I was thinking of using 1x4's & a 1x6 for my 3 stringers, well coated in 2 coats
of resin before inserting into existing channels and tabbing in. Also, I believe I will
put a 1/8 shim in 3 or 4 places under the stringers and tab in place in 6 or so positions, then remove the shims and finish tabbing and then completely covering them)
I believe the stringers are meant to be separated from the hull, not tight to
the bottom, isn't that right?

I've searched many fiberglass sites (including the 1 you recommend) and can't seem
to find any 8 oz. CSM, am I missing something, or did you mean 8 oz. cloth??


I also understand the finishing everything off with the 1708 bi-axial, and should
I use finishing resin for the final pass, or just buy the "wax" additve and add it
to my unwaxed polyester resin that I'll use for the first through 2nd last step?

Thanx again for all the help, hope I can 'git 'er done' for opening day!!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

I'd recommend using 3/4" Ext. Grade Plywood for your stringers and use the 1.5 oz mat when you laminate them together. I would BED them to the hull usine PL Adhesive that you buy at LOWE's or Home Depot. It remains Rubbery when it cures and you won't get hardspots in the hull. It does need 48 hours to cure so just use some mat to tab the stringers in for a couple of days. Yes I DID mean 8 oz cloth SORRY. Buy some wax for the FINAL Coat. You're good to GO !!!

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Skip the wax, its useless, same with the cloth (sorry). Just use the mat and 1708, or 24oz roving.

Cloth adds very little strength for its cost and is rarely used in building production boats, and since a layer of mat needs to be used under it plus over it for the next layup, you end up with more layers of mat, which is weak, then you need more resin to wet the mat out, so you end up with extra weight and higher cost with little benefit.


Wax is almost never used either, it just complicates things later, plus can add cost and weight too.

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Still confused!!

I'll need 2 layers of 3/4 plywood for my transom, so I laminate them
together w/ a layer of 1.5 oz. mat between them, correct? Then I
seal all edges with????----the 1.5 oz. mat or this "PB" mix you all speak of??

As for the stringers---2 of them are approx. 3/4"x6"x10' and the 3rd is approx.
3/4"x8"x10', so even if I use 3/4" plywood instead of 1" boards, what exactly
do I have to laminate together??

BTW, thanx again for all the input! I finally found an outlet for the resin & cloth
that isn't going to bankrupt me!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Duh I thought your stringers were 1 1/2". Just go with the 3/4" Ply. Ondarvr is probably correct about the mat. Wax ?? Without it the resin stays kinda sticky, it's up to you. Here's what I would do. Make patterns for your stringers, cut em out and precoat em with resin and and layer of 1.5 oz mat and another coat of resin. Make sure and wrap the edges good and coat em good. Do this OUTSIDE the boat. When they are dry, Kinda sticky still, bed em in the PL, and then use some 1.5 to tab em in and hold em square until the PL cures. Them use the 1708 to wrap em and call em good.

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Thanx again WOG!

I still have 'most' of the original stringers. The reason I wanted to use 1" boards
as opposed to plywood was because I still can't find a 10' sheet of plywood!!
The originals had a short piece scabbed on each one at the back of the boat,
and I (being a 'tad' OCD) wanted to avoid this. But the way you describe
covering them with resin & mat, and the fact they'll be out of sight beneath the
deck anyway, guess I'll use the 3/4" plywood which seems to be the general
concensus everywhere I research.

So I'm clear (I think) about the stringer installation, but still a
little foggy on the transom. Do I put a layer of 1.5 oz. mat between the two
layers, and also on both outsides of the joined halves? And do I try to seal
the edges w/ mat as well (or do I use the PB mix)? All this before actually
trying to install it into the opening of the stern?

I'll start with these 2 phases, and then I'll pick your brains again when
it's time to install the deck/sole.

Thanx again!!

P.S.: One last thing, there are about 10 different varieties of PL, is there
a specific name for the one you mean? I believe I've used PL Premium
before, and I seem to recall it dried hard as a rock!!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Since your stringers are 10' I'd use 1/2" cdx and lam em together That way it would be a solid one structure. Transom...
Yep on ALL counts CSM in-between, outside AND especially on the edges.

This is the PL to use

The Henkel PL premium polyurethane construction adhesive is three times stronger than regular construction adhesives and is compatible with all traditional building materials. The VOC compliant adhesive formula meets State and Federal VOC regulations and exceeds glued sub-floor (AFG-01 and ASTM D 3498) and drywall construction (ASTM C 557) codes as well as FMA bulletin UM 60a. Once cured, the bond is both weather and waterproof. The adhesive is elastic and remains flexible to expand and contract with bonded material movement to protect the original seal. It can be used both indoors and outdoors and is ideal for sub-floor installation as well as bonding polystyrene foam, wood, metal, fiberglass, masonry, ceramic tile, marble and OSB. This adhesive dries bronze and comes in a 10.2-ounce cartridge, for use with a standard caulk gun.

Check and see if they have the GIANT tubes and gun. You don't have to Re-Load so often.

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

OK, just when I'm feeling confident to go, ya throw me
another curve ball!!!

What is this 1/2" CDX you speak of, and when you say
lam 'em together and end up with one solid piece, I'm
assuming you mean something like a 6 1/2' piece & a
3 1/2' piece running one way, lam'd to the same running
the other way to end up with 10', am I correct??

And I see the PL you recommend, now by "bedding" the
stringers in with this stuff, do you mean liberally applying
it to the entire length of the channel the stringers fit into??
I'm assuming this since you suggest the large tubes/gun.
(I have the large caulking gun, BTW)

I'm going to pick up the 3/4" plywood (at least for the transom)
and get down & dirty this weekend. I may still use the 3/4" ply
for the stringers as well, buddy who's gonna help me says we can
biscuit the ends together and scab pieces on the sides of the joints
and they'll be plenty strong. (He's an old woodworker from many
moons, and he's missing a couple fingertips to prove it!!)

Thanx again WOG, you certainly are a wealth of information!!

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Hey WOG, guess you missed my last post??:redface:

 

[rickryder]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Hi cyber!
That is what Wood was saying about laming the pieces together. Cdx is exterior grade plywood available at the big box stores or your local lumber yard.

Bedding your stringers is just what you think a bed of PL for the stringer to set in so the wood dose not contact the hull and create hard spots that can fracture the glass and gel coat.

Using the 3/4 ply with splice blocks will work also just be sure to go at least 12" either side of the splice. I did splices on my current rebuild. Plenty of pics to look at for a reference.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

You can "Sister" in your splices with 3/4" but it will NOT be as strong as lamming the 1/2" together and it will only be 3/4" NOT 1". You are spot on on Bedding the stringers with PL. Again be sure and let the PL CURE a Minimum of 48 hours before laying any glass over it.

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

OK, actually got something constructive done today!!!!

I bought 2 sheets of 3/4" Exterior grade plywood and cut out all
my pieces. Two thicknesses for transom, and all pieces for the 3
stringers, including the 24" splices for the joints. Turns out the
center stringer is approx. 8' 10" and the two side ones are approx.
9' 6". I gave all pieces a good coat of resin on one side and all
edges, tomorrow I'll do the other side and all edges again, then
wait 'til my mat/cloth/resin order comes in from e-tailer mid-week.

Crazy how much you can save w/ a little research!!

I actually think I may start a "restoration" thread now that I've started
to make actual progress and have some pictures I can post to take
advantage of any & all advice that comes along. I want to give a huge
thank you to 'Woodonglass' for his multitude of assistance, and everyone
else who has helped me on this thread and others since joining this board!!
It truly is remarkable!!!!
P.S.: Hey Wood, the original stringers were only 3/4" thick, and I'm gonna have plenty
of laminating to do as it is, w/o laminating 2 thicknesses together for the stringers.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Kool, So NOW, Where's dem PICS???? My signature has a link on How to post em. Can't wait to see what you're workin on.

Is that really you with that Fish or did you just cut and paste it off the Internet

 

[cyber]

Re: Recommended Types of Fiberglass/Resin

Hey WOG, I started a new thread titled "1984 Thundercraft Firebird 147 Restoration".

Hope you'll follow along and rein me in if I head off on any strange tangents!!

Thanx again!!