Rule automatic pump issues

[JSGOLD]

I installed a new Rule Mate 750 pump and a Rule 45 3 way switch this evening and when I ran it the for a test the automatic setting gave me a constant pump and manual did nothing. I did not have directions on the 45 but I wired it up based on information with the pump. However after looking online at attwoods switch (rule has no directions online) it looks like the manual terminal is at the opposite end and visa versa. So, I switched the terminals and manual works great. Nothing on automatic. The bilge was cleaned so i don't see anything there would aggravate it(their website lists that as the only possibiity, and my wire connections are new and soldered. I have seen rumblings that some of these Rule Mates are not very good right out of the box.....have any of you had issues with them?

 

[Outsider]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Mine is wired like this. And before anyone says auto is 'supposed' to be hot-wired, this is the way it's 'supposed' to be since it's the way I want it to be. And all it takes is to remember to put the switch to AUTO when launching. It's one of the things I do before leaving the dock, like checking the gas I actually have is pretty much equal to what I think I have. Works with an automatic pump, also, take the float switch out of the circuit and connect the automatic switch wire to the third wire from the pump. Anyone with a two-wire automatic has my sympathies ...

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

The Rule Mate 750 Pump will not activate Automatically until there is 2.75+ inches of water around the pump.
You don't mention how much water the pump was in.

Polarity does not matter in the manual position but it does in Auto.
Brown and Brown/White go to the switch.
Black goes to Ground.

Does it run when you press the "Push to Test" Button on the pump for 5+ seconds?

 

[tazrig]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

The only problem with the rule mate pump in sizes smaller than 1500 gph is that they won't work if you have a real oily bilge. Other than that they are a good solid pump. The smaller ones use an internal sensor to activate the pump. 1500 gph and higher have an actual float internal to the pump so they are not affected by an oily bilge. With the bigger rule mates there is a 2 second delay before it starts pumping. (this is so it isn't constantly cycling on and off) The smaller ones may have the same delay but I'm not positive, so if you fill up the bilge to 2.75+ inches as UncleWillie noted wait a few seconds to make sure it's just not the normal delay.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

The only problem with the rule mate pump in sizes smaller than 1500 gph is that they won't work if you have a real oily bilge. ...so they are not affected by an oily bilge. ....

Someone is going to jump in here and say that if you have that much oil in the bilge you should Not be dumping it overboard and should fix the leak and clean up your bilge.

Therefor, I am not going to mention it! :facepalm:

 

[JSGOLD]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

I cleaned the bilge prior to installation. No sign of oil or fuel. Sorry for delay, we just got back from first boat outing of the year. I plan on d/c some things in the next day or two and see if I have a problem or not. I thought we had plenty of water in the bilge but as mine is sloped a bit maybe there wasn't enough....Will check the connections too and see what happens. Generally the only time I ever need the bige is if we get caught in a rain storm. Hull is pretty sound and dry. But I wanted the automatic capability of this pump so I hope it is all right. I did not use the test button feature as there is little room in there to fit my hand for the test. I can pull it back out though and see if that works. Works great with manual.....

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

I cleaned the bilge prior to installation. No sign of oil or fuel. Sorry for delay, we just got back from first boat outing of the year. I plan on d/c some things in the next day or two and see if I have a problem or not. I thought we had plenty of water in the bilge but as mine is sloped a bit maybe there wasn't enough....Will check the connections too and see what happens. ... I wanted the automatic capability of this pump so I hope it is all right...

I hope you did not think the Oil comments were directed at you. :joyous:

The easiest way to conform the pump operation is to park it with the bow up and stick a garden hose in the bilge.
You will be surprised at how much water it take to get the pump to come on, and also how much is still in there when it shuts off.
Drain the remaining out the plug.
Lower the bow and you may find that there is STILL another gallon or two that will drain forward where you can get it with a bucket and a sponge.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Someone is going to jump in here and say that if you have that much oil in the bilge you should Not be dumping it overboard and should fix the leak and clean up your bilge.

Therefor, I am not going to mention it!

Thank you for not mentioning it:lol:

I'm with you 100% on keeping a clean bilge. In fact I just had my whole bilge and engine area painted white when I re-powered just so I could more easily stay on top of it. I always felt that the oil detecter in a bilge pump was such a foolish design. Suppose you happen to have a catastrophic event such as hitting a rock and puncturing a hole in your bottom and one or both of your oil pans or another reservoir that contained some type of oil.

Which is better... dumping SOME oil and grease into the water to get safely back to port afloat... or sinking and dumping SOME oil and grease along with now POWER STEERING FLUID, RADIATOR FLUID, POWER TRIM FLUID, TRIM TAB FLUID, BATTERY ACID AND 80-100 GALLONS OF FUEL along with whatever other toxic goodies you happen to have onboard at the time??? :noidea::facepalm::noidea:

Given the option I'm doin me some dumping and wouldn't think twice about it!!!

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Here is a diagram

http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184719&d=1362960377

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Which is better... dumping SOME oil and grease into the water to get safely back to port afloat... or sinking and dumping SOME oil and grease along with now POWER STEERING FLUID, RADIATOR FLUID, POWER TRIM FLUID, TRIM TAB FLUID, BATTERY ACID AND 80-100 GALLONS OF FUEL along with whatever other toxic goodies you happen to have on-board at the time??? :noidea::facepalm::noidea:

I have the feeling they designed a water detecting sensor and found it would not sense petroleum products.
So, rather than a flaw, the market department decided that was something they could market as a positive, desirable feature! :happy:

Of course the MANUAL Switch Setting will over ride the sensor and happily pump any oil and gas you may have.
At least, then you can make an informed decision. :joyous:

 

[tazrig]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

I have the feeling they designed a water detecting sensor and found it would not sense petroleum products.
So, rather than a flaw, the market department decided that was something they could market as a positive, desirable feature! :happy:

Of course the MANUAL Switch Setting will over ride the sensor and happily pump any oil and gas you may have.
At least, then you can make an informed decision. :joyous:

As you mentioned above, one would certainly hope that it was only a design flaw and not a group of "greenies" who deliberately got together and designed it that way like the even more foolish catalyzed I/O engines. After all... with all the millions and millions of boats out there in such terribly congested oceans catalyzed I/O's are going to do oh so much more than just raise the price of the purchase by thousands, create new and as of yet undiagnosed migraines for the poor mechanics who have to figure out how to service them, and increase maintenance costs by thousands... (Don and some others looked up that a new 2 piece catalyzed big block manifold cost $2,300 each) They're are going to make just a HUGE environmental difference for the better!! :lol:

I'm also hoping (more than you know) that you are correct and the guy from Rule pumps I spoke with several months ago is wrong, but he told me that once the 500, 750 and 1100's detect oil they will not work even with the manual switch until they are cleaned or flushed out. I was about to have the yard doing my re-power yank out the 2000 gph's I had put in when the guy from Rule told me that the 1500 and 2000's had physical float switches in them and worked differently. I went to West Marine and pulled a 500 and a 2000 to verify. When you tip them upside down you can hear the ball bearing moving to activate the switch in the 2000. In the 500 there is silence. (all electronic) :noidea::noidea: I know, I know, Deep breaths and go to my happy place... Oy, my poor blood pressure:lol:

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Of course a Non-Automatic Pump and a separate Mechanical Float Switch together cost less than one of the Automatic pumps.
And the reliability is likely greater also. The KISS Principal!

I wonder how many of the $2300 Manifolds are going to be replaced with Non-catalytic Manifolds when the time comes.

 

[JSGOLD]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Well, guess the only thing wrong but my understanding of how these work! I re-tested the pump in automatic mode and this time made sure there was enough water. When it got to around 3" or so WHOOSH...on it came. Thanks for all the replies folks....in the future I will try to research these things better. That, and hang onto instructions !:facepalm:

 

[tazrig]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Of course a Non-Automatic Pump and a separate Mechanical Float Switch together cost less than one of the Automatic pumps.
And the reliability is likely greater also. The KISS Principal!

I wonder how many of the $2300 Manifolds are going to be replaced with Non-catalytic Manifolds when the time comes.

I agree with you on the pump. Wasn't my first choice. I just happened to look in the boat one day and they had put 2 of the new style in. They are hooked up to custom made metal trays that sit under the engines and attach to the top of one of the stringers so when they eventually give out I can just remove the tray and replace them. With my old setup you either had to remove the engines to get at the pumps or have the pumps way up forward in the engine compartment and a third manual pump with a hose going to the stern to get at that water. I don't think there was physical room to fit the 2000gph round ones (and I wanted my 2000gph's!) with a separate float switch other wise I would have.

To your next question I'm pretty sure you can't just take them out. I know for certain that you can't remove the Catalytic converter because there is an O2 sensor on either side of it which connects directly to the ECM and if the engine doesn't "see" the converter it won't run. Even if you could re-flash the ECM or do some other type of electronic work around and replace the risers (the new manifolds look like a giant "s") and the y pipe I suspect those sneaky greenies have it rigged so an old manifold wouldn't fit where the new one goes. But it's going to be interesting for sure because god only knows how many folks are going to try and try everything imaginable to do a work around. Bond-o put it perfectly: "I'm glad I'm not going to live long enough to EVER see one of "them" things in my boat." Hopefully his engine(s) will last many more years to come!

 

[tazrig]

Re: Rule automatic pump issues

Well, guess the only thing wrong but my understanding of how these work! I re-tested the pump in automatic mode and this time made sure there was enough water. When it got to around 3" or so WHOOSH...on it came. Thanks for all the replies folks....in the future I will try to research these things better. That, and hang onto instructions !:facepalm:

Glad you finally got it all figured out.:happy: I used to keep my manuals until the day before I would need them and THEN throw them out. :lol: Now everything goes into a big manila folder labeled "BOAT" I keep it in my draw with a 24 hour guard standing by it all time. The guard gets expensive but I don't loose any more manuals...