Running bravo 3 out of water with no muffs

nitsuj

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Jul 22, 2003
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I'm super paranoid about running my engine in the driveway on muffs. They don't seem to be sealing well and I don't want to smoke my new impeller. I started the engine and I'm not getting water out of the exhaust. I shut it down after a few seconds. Can I hook the hose directly to the intake side of the water pump? Maybe install a T in the intake hose with in input for a garden hose?
 

San_Diego_SeaRay

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Nov 9, 2014
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When I bought my boat it had a T connected right before the seawater pump, just like you mentioned. So yes, this can be and is done.

But I'm wondering why your muffs aren't working correctly. I have two different sets and they both work great on my Bravo 1. Yes, when you put them on there is water spilling out from the rubber cups. But right when I start it up that decreases to almost zero and water comes out the exhaust. My Walmart sells muffs for like $5. Maybe you should try a different type?

Installing a T sounds like a pain. You'll have to cut the steel reinforced intake hose and then find a way to rig up the T.
 

nitsuj

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Jul 22, 2003
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Could very well be that I need a different type. If I pull the input line off the pump and run the hose to the muffs, no water comes out of the line at the pump. If I have a helper bear hug the muffs and seal them up tight, I get water up to the pump. So the muffs sealing is part of my problem. I could try other muffs, and I intend to. But they’re obviously a variable and I’d like to eliminate it.

At this point, I’m so damn paranoid about it, and I just want to be able to run the thing without worrying about it. It’s a real tough spot. You want to run it, and be sure it’s cooling. I don’t know if I don’t have flow because of a blockage or because of a bad impeller, etc. It could just be that I’m not giving it enough time to fill up the system and flow out. The crap thing about that is, the amount of time it takes to see flow, is likely the exact amount of time it takes to destroy an impeller. So I wait for water to flow, probably takes a good 30 seconds to fill up an empty cooling system before it comes out the exhaust. Probably only takes 10 seconds to melt a dry impeller.
 

Tassie 1

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Try a F clamp on the muffs, if you have one
a little mucking around but does work

muffs seem to loose tension after awhile,
 

nitsuj

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muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
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Mercury 44357T2

Has a good seal, doesn’t fall off and more than enough water flow.
 

thumpar

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On the muffs that have the V metal bracket that holds them on you can usually take the rubber off the metal and bend them back together to get tension back.
 

tpenfield

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Water will squirt from the muffs when the engine is off, but squirt less when the engine is running. If the cooling system is empty, it may take about 10 seconds to get water coming out the exhaust.
 

nitsuj

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Water will squirt from the muffs when the engine is off, but squirt less when the engine is running. If the cooling system is empty, it may take about 10 seconds to get water coming out the exhaust.

It's coming out of the muffs pretty good. Hard to tell if it gets less when I start the motor. My concern is that I'll fry the impeller in 10 seconds before I know I don't have flow. What I really want to be sure of is that the system isn't clogged. My last 3 boats all came to me with cooling issues. One was clogged by scale, one was clogged by sand, and this one was clogged by impeller fragments. So I have this paranoia that I got no flow. I probably do, and I'm probably way over thinking this. But I want to be 100% sure before I put this thing back in the water. I'm going to pick up a set of the mercruiser muffs tomorrow. Mine are older, and maybe the rubber is too stiff to make a good seal. I wan't to eliminate them as a problem.

Edit: Why the hell don't stern drives have tell tales like my outboards did?!? That made is so easy to check flow.
 

nola mike

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Even if you're not getting adequate flow to the engine, the impeller only needs enough water to lubricate it.
 

HT32BSX115

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It's coming out of the muffs pretty good. Hard to tell if it gets less when I start the motor. My concern is that I'll fry the impeller in 10 seconds before I know I don't have flow.

You will not "fry" the impeller in 10 seconds.

If you (or a previous owner) have ever had an impeller failure/disintegration, and you have not pulled your oil cooler to clear it of fragments, it would be a good idea to do so soon.

When I removed my oil cooler, I tried to back-flush it with no success. I finally had to use needle-nose pliers to pull the impeller fragments out of it to completely clear it. The 7.4L engine oil cooler water passages are small enough to prevent passage of impeller fragments or other large debris.


Can I hook the hose directly to the intake side of the water pump? Maybe install a T in the intake hose with in input for a garden hose?
You certainly could. You would need 2 valves to prevent flow to the drive and one for the hose input (or use a cap, etc)

It would be unnecessary, and you run the risk of having the valves in the wrong position or the cap leaking or getting lost etc.

Just get a good flush adapter, make sure it doesn't slip off and make sure the hose is on before starting.



Cheers,

Rick
.
 
Last edited:

nitsuj

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Jul 22, 2003
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You will not "fry" the impeller in 10 seconds.

If you (or a previous owner) have ever had an impeller failure/disintegration, and you have not pulled your oil cooler to clear it of fragments, it would be a good idea to do so soon.

When I removed my oil cooler, I tried to back-flush it with no success. I finally had to use needle-nose pliers to pull the impeller fragments out of it to completely clear it. The 7.4L engine oil cooler water passages are small enough to prevent passage of impeller fragments or other large debris.


You certainly could. You would need 2 valves to prevent flow to the drive and one for the hose input (or use a cap, etc)

It would be unnecessary, and you run the risk of having the valves in the wrong position or the cap leaking or getting lost etc.

Just get a good flush adapter, make sure it doesn't slip off and make sure the hose is on before starting.



Cheers,

Rick
.

Thanks Rick (and everyone else)! I've made some progress. Firstly, I went an bought the mercruiser muffs. Worst $40 I ever spent! I fitted them up and no matter how tight I squeezed them, I couldn't get them to seal well enough to push water up the leg and out the end of the hose that normally hooks to the impeller. Further experimentation is needed I think. But, I did put the end of the garden hose in the hose that normally goes to the output side of the impeller and to the engine. I got flow all the way through. Learned something interesting by doing that, the water was coming out of two holes up close to the transom as opposed to out of the prop hubs. What that tells me is that all this time I've been flushing expecting to see water exiting the props, I should have been looking at these other holes. (Which I didn't know existed). I've been having my helper watch the prop area, and alert me if nothing comes out. I realize this thread is making me seem pretty stupid, but I swear I'm a pretty decent mechanic, I've just never had a Mercruiser before.

To answer your other concern, there was an impeller failure, I believe caused by lack of flow when the seller fired the boat up during my inspection. I was inside the boat at the time, so didn't notice a lack of flow. The reason I believe this is that when I unhooked the hoses at the impeller, the system was full of anti-freeze, which would have been flushed out had the impeller been working when it was running on muffs. While replacing the impeller, I was getting decent flow when I back flushed, but I knew the amount of fragments weren't enough to comprise the entire impeller so I went exploring. I found a lot of my impeller jammed up in the oil cooler as you describe. Between what I found in there, what back flushed out and what was jammed in the passages of the impeller housing, I'm confident I got it all.

Tonight I pulled the drive off. I'm going to try to replace the shift cable bellows so I can sea test it next weekend. Good news is, drive bellows are good. No signs of water intrusion. Gimbal bearings look good and feel tight and smooth.
 

metsfan3197843

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It sounds to me like you have a blockage between the muffs and your seawater pump inlet if you can’t easily get water flow from the outdrive pickup to the disconnected hose. Perhaps the dreaded bravoitis? With the leg off do you get plenty of flow through the seawater pump inlet hose with a hose inserted into the pickup hose on the bell housing?
 

QBhoy

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You can easily take the feed hose off (the one from the drive that comes up from under engine) and put a hose down it. Bravo are a hit or a miss with muffs, even with the right ones. I’m my experience anyway.
 

nitsuj

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Jul 22, 2003
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Bravo are a hit or a miss with muffs, even with the right ones. I’m my experience anyway.

I’m so glad you said that! I thought I was the only one! I just can’t reliably get it to pick up water. Pulled the drive off to take care of a few things, so I’ll try it again tomorrow after I get it back on.
 

QBhoy

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I’m so glad you said that! I thought I was the only one! I just can’t reliably get it to pick up water. Pulled the drive off to take care of a few things, so I’ll try it again tomorrow after I get it back on.

Yeah. Not as easy as the alpha with the pump in the drive. Even with the right sealing muffs...there is a moment or three of running dry and then you usually need to give her a little rev to even begin to pull water through. Even then. Much better with the hose direct into the intake to pump hose. Easily done. The local merc dealer won’t do anything but this with them.
 

metsfan3197843

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Believe what you want I guess but sure sounds like you have an issue. Everyone I know with a bravo 3 has no problems running on muffs, myself included.
 

nitsuj

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Jul 22, 2003
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483
Believe what you want I guess but sure sounds like you have an issue. Everyone I know with a bravo 3 has no problems running on muffs, myself included.

I don’t believe or not believe anything. I’m looking for answers. Flow is clear from the leg to the impeller. Flow is clear from the impeller to the transom exhausts. There is no blockage, for sure. I can pass water through everywhere. The only thing I know may be my issue is up until now, I’ve been running the engine with me in the boat and a helper on the ground. My helpers instructions were to watch the center of the prop for exiting water. I only recently realized that the water exists the two holes on either side of the transom shield. I wasn’t telling my helper to look there, so I may have been prematurely shutting down the boat without realizing I had flow the whole time. Since I’ve learned that, the drive has been off and I haven’t been able to check my theory. What I do know is with my old universal muffs, water was being pushed up the leg and out the inlet hose of the pump. With the Mercruiser muffs, water wasn’t going up the leg.
 

HT32BSX115

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I am not sure if this has been asked but, did you have the same problem before changing the impeller? And if you did not, is it possible that you have the inlet and discharge hoses on the pump housing reversed?

It's not very obvious if they are switched.

I have never had a problem getting mine to work with the generic "muffs" I have.

I have also used a 5 gallon pail with water + anti-freeze mix suctioning with the pail sitting on the swim-step, after starting with the hose filled with water to siphon from the pail to the muffs.

I have a full-closed cooling system so all I had to do is get the siphon started and start the engine. At idle, it would drain that 5 gallon pail in less than a few min.

If you accidentally get the hoses on the back of the pump housing wrong, it will not suction water at all even if you fill all the hoses first.
 
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