Running engine without water

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pbv

Cadet
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Messages
16
OK, before I post this message no comments on being stupid. As a novice boater I was not aware of the damage that can be done in running an engine out of the water or without muffs. about 5 months ago after one of our florida hurricanes I ran my starboard engine on my 2002 280 sundancer w/ twin 4.3 EFI's to dry off the engine from the water intrusion after the storm. It ran for about 60 seconds at idle speed only. It was not put in gear. After reading a shop manual and viewing posts on this forum I realized it was a really bad idea. Since doing this, I have had the boat on the water for several short cruises with no problems. My concern is that I will be going to the Bahamas this spring or summer. I will be at cruising speed for two and a half hours on the open sea. Am I asking for an engine failure at the worst possible time? Did I dodge a bullet with my misguided judgement? Or is premature failer of the impeller inevitable? should I just go ahead and have the impeller inspected and or replaced to be safe? One last question does this mistake also impact the water pump on the engine or just the drive...I appreciate the imput<br /><br />pbv
 
jlinder

jlinder

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Re: Running engine without water

I do not know about your particular engine, but I suspect you have damaged the impeller. Run a rubber impeller dry in a housing and you get meltdown pretty quickly.<br /><br />At least that is what happened to mine with just 10 seconds of run time. At least on mine it was a simple replacement procedure (Cobra)<br /><br />I would get it checked, and once you have it apart, considering the labor it is probably best to just replace it if you see anything worn.<br /><br />Don't risk it.
 
C

crazy charlie

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May 22, 2003
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Re: Running engine without water

You have got to replace the impeller.I am not sure if I read the post right but did you state that you have had the boat out and running fine since???? Does not sound possible if you have outdrives and did not use muffs.The impeller in the drive (assuming you have one and are raw water cooled)Would have been ruined in the first few seconds.The motor would be fine if it were only run for 5 minutes.Charlie
 
Scaaty

Scaaty

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Re: Running engine without water

Take two pencils with erasers. <br />Flat glass and water one side, dry other. <br />Rub like hell for a minute...one dry, one wet.<br /> Now set up an appointment for new impellers after wrecking a good eraser. :D
 
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pbv

Cadet
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Jan 10, 2005
Messages
16
Re: Running engine without water

I have had the boat out about 8 times since the incident and it runs ok...but I will take the good advice to have it replaced to be safe...
 
KaGee

KaGee

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Aug 14, 2004
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Re: Running engine without water

PBV... <br /><br />WELCOME TO THE FORUM!<br /><br />What you did was not stupid. We were all novices at one point. Some of us are experienced novices! :D <br /><br />Now, going to the Bahamas without changing that impeller... THAT'S STUPID!
 
f_inscreenname

f_inscreenname

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Aug 23, 2001
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Re: Running engine without water

It may be OK now but when you ran it you probably took years off the life of the impeller. Over the years I have done that a couple times. In my defense. My boat uses a separate (not in drive) raw water pump on the front of the motor. It has a couple diverter valves so you can shut off the water intake from the bottom of the boat and use a garden hose connection, etc. After pulling the motor or doing major work of some kind and having it running in the driveway (for the first year I owned it) a couple times when I finally got it to the ramp for a test drive I have left the wrong valve closed. I would catch it right away and had no problems. This past spring I got top the ramp and with the valves set right, turned the motor over and POOF it was toast . Should not happened as soon as it did and I contribute it to the dry starts. I have to tell you if I was going 3 hours in the open ocean I would have it replaced.
 
Scaaty

Scaaty

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Re: Running engine without water

I should mention I just replaced my raw water impeller this year. It also ran okay in the way of temps, but I did not do a lot of hard/long running. When I pulled it apart (motor mounted-VP280 leg) do you believe I had 8 fins left from 12, and 2 were stuck in the pump vanes, and there are only 4 vanes? And I was only going to update my circulation pump at the start, but said as long as I was down there...sometimes things happen for a reason....don't temp fate, bites back every time. And if you had a few seasons on them, need to replace anyway. Good Luck
 
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DHPMARINE

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Dec 16, 2003
Messages
3,688
Re: Running engine without water

I imagine you damaged the pumps,and chaulk it up to the learning process.Now you know.The other thing to realize is the pumps should be replaced every other year,anyhow.Maybe yearly if kept in salt water.The circulating pump is not included,until you have more serious problems.<br /><br />DHP
 
Bondo

Bondo

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Re: Running engine without water

"Did I dodge a bullet with my misguided judgement? " <br />Ayuh,............. At Least 8 Times Now.........<br /><br /> "Or is premature failer of the impeller inevitable?" <br />Ayuh,........... No Doubt About It.........<br /><br /> "Am I asking for an engine failure at the worst possible time? " <br />Ayuh,.........<br /><br /> should I just go ahead and have the impeller inspected and or replaced to be safe? <br />Not Inspected,.......Replaced,......The Labor to Just look at it, Isn't Worth not replacing a Buck-Two.98 Part................ ;) <br />You May need an Impeller,+ Housing Kit on at least 1 of your pumps.......And, Make Sure whoever does it, Finds All the broken pieces......<br /><br /> "One last question does this mistake also impact the water pump on the engine " <br />Nope,..... Not in the Least.....It was still Running Wet........ ;) <br /> <br /> "I ran my starboard engine on my 2002 280 sundancer w/ twin 4.3 EFI's to dry off the engine from the water intrusion after the storm." <br />Now That was Smart......... Shoulda used the Muffs though.......... :( <br /><br />I Gotta admit,<br />KaGee sums it up Real Well................. :D <br /><br />
PBV... <br /><br /> WELCOME TO THE FORUM! <br /><br />What you did was not stupid. We were all novices at one point. Some of us are experienced novices! :D <br /><br />Now, going to the Bahamas without changing that impeller... THAT'S STUPID! <br />
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jlinder

jlinder

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Re: Running engine without water

KaGee is kinda right, it is not a stupid mistake but a rookie one. (Now leaving the plug out and launching the boat is a stupid mistake - but none of us ever do that, right?). Don't worry, we all make those mistakes. Just try to only do them once.<br /><br />People here are pretty nice and have good advice. Don't worry about admitting your errors. And if you have a boat learn to laugh at yourself - it helps.<br /><br />KaGee is also right when he says not changing the impeller would be a stupid mistake. Think of how bad you would feel if you decide to chance it and have to get a tow from the middle of nowhere and paying to repair major engine damage. Better safe than sorry.
 
KaGee

KaGee

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Re: Running engine without water

Originally posted by Jack L:<br /> KaGee is kinda right, it is not a stupid mistake but a rookie one. (Now leaving the plug out and launching the boat is a stupid mistake - but none of us ever do that, right?).
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Nope never done that one.....
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N

NYMINUTE

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Oct 6, 2003
Messages
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Re: Running engine without water

Originally posted by KaGee:<br />
Originally posted by Jack L:<br /> KaGee is kinda right, it is not a stupid mistake but a rookie one. (Now leaving the plug out and launching the boat is a stupid mistake - but none of us ever do that, right?).
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Nope never done that one.....
4_18_5.gif
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Have you left the plug somewhere else? Like in the tow? Yes it's been done. :D
 
jlinder

jlinder

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Re: Running engine without water

pbv,<br /><br />If you start getting down on yourself, go to the section of the board called stupid human tricks.<br /><br />Boaters who left the plug out, or throw out the anchor and watch the end of the line fly past into the water, or ..........<br /><br />Read a handful of those posts when you get down on yourself and it will lift your spirits.
 
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Darrendude

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Nov 16, 2004
Messages
145
Re: Running engine without water

Call me lucky or what? Before I knew the ' no run with out h20' I ran my boat many times dry, atleast 10 or 12 times for up to a minute ea time , Reved it too. After I learned the error of my ways I bought a waterpump kit. I have yet to install it because it seems that I didnt do any damage. I have taken my boat out a dozen times since and motor temp is good. So I take it the pump must be working.<br /><br />comments?
 
ziggy

ziggy

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Jun 30, 2004
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Re: Running engine without water

yep, i've made the mistake too. ignorance is bliss ay, not. ran mine perhaps 1 min ea. 2 times. after i got hip to the facts, i didn't even try to run it to see if it would overheat. just replaced it. darren, my impeller looked like a hub only. minus any fins. never found all the pieces, just dust and some small fragments. will always wonder, till i need a rebuild i reckon, where all those small fragments went. hopefully out the exhust, but just don't know. could be pieces wedged in my water jacket too i suppose and i just aint hip to that, yet....
 
R

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Running engine without water

hello<br /> pbv<br /> the design of the alpha 1gen II pump is vastly different from the alpha 1<br /> it is a lot more tolerant of dry runs.<br /> however its time to do the pumps. maybe remove the drives and check the shaft alignment and bellows. check the lower vents on the circulating pumps for signs of rust tracks that would indicate they are leaking.change the water seperators<br /> thats a lot of open water you gotta cross. no sense in leaving the dock with old stuff.
 
1

16Pilot

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 18, 2004
Messages
205
Re: Running engine without water

PBV I have done the same thing, I chewed it pretty bad though because I noticed smoke from the pump area.
 
jlinder

jlinder

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Re: Running engine without water

Darren,<br /><br />Maybe you are lucky, maybe not. You have been lucky if you have not had an overheat problem. Maybe the pump and impeller are both good.<br /><br />Or, maybe you have damaged the pump and impeller but they are still cooling for now. Maybe they are working now but their life has been shortened dramaticly and they are just about ready to fail.<br /><br />If so, you know it will be at the worst possible time, and in a spectacular way. Murphy's law prevails.<br /><br />Your decision - wanna roll the dice?
 
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Darrendude

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Nov 16, 2004
Messages
145
Re: Running engine without water

You maybe right Jack. I do have a new kit just haven't had the nerve to attempt the replacement yet. It does run cool though. I dont have numbers on the temp gauge but when cruising it stays in the yellow (the first 1/8 of an inch) of the gauge. However when I am just idling (in the water) it goes up to about the middle of the green, halfway on the gauge. When I take off it comes right back to cool. I have used the boat just about everyday this week. I live on a lake.
 
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