Running in a "bucket"

[stealurface]

Hi all -I am going to be tuning up a recently acquired '68 9.5 Johnson this weekend. Been reading up on what to do and have the manuals and now a plan of attack.<br /><br />I want to work on the engine in my garage. I have a stand it sits on and plan on putting the unit in a a bucket/garbage can full of water. Is this the best method? <br /><br />I don't think "muffs" will fit on this type of engine - correct?

 

[petrolhead]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

A bucket is fine, but make it a big deep one, otherwise if you run the motor in gear the bucket will be empty in seconds!

 

[v12mac]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Also I have read posts that you should watch the temp of the water in the bucket as the engine will recycle that water over and over for cooling.<br />Mac

 

[BF]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

your plan is good. I prefer a plastic garbage can to muffs 'cause you can really see what the water pump is doing (and set the idle with it running in gear). Try and have the water level to be the same as it will be when on a boat. Otherwise, the water pump has to draw water from down low, and it may not do that well at idle. For my stand height putting the garbage can on a layer of 2x6's makes it the right height.<br /><br />The water/can will get black/oily and will spill all over if you run the engine in gear. You might not wanna do that in your garage if it has a nice clean floor. Don't set it up on a prized spot on your lawn either Gassy/oily water is a good de-foliant.<br /><br />Good luck.<br /><br />Brent

 

[DJ]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

A garbage can full of water is REAL heavy. Drill a hole in the side, at the bottom, and put a bolt in it as a plug.

 

[JB]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

In the garage??<br /><br />Oily smoke all over everything pretty quickly, and how do you propose to drain/empty the "bucket"?<br /><br />In the drive or yard is better.

 

[zantz]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

DJ is right. If it's a rubbermaid, a bolt with a washer makes a good plug. Saw this trick in an old boat shop once. He even installed a garden hose attachment to fill and drain, plus when it's in gear it does throw a lot of water out. With the attachment he could keep a steady stream of water filling the can.

 

[stealurface]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Ok - thanks everyone for the input. I am going to go with the Rubbermaid suggestion and use the bolt/washer idea. Since I have two outboards - I will get use out of it I am sure.<br /><br />Also going do this in the side lot - probably better for 2 reasons<br /><br />1. Garage will stay clean<br />2. Neighbors will hear the noise, come over and give me their "suggestions" on how to properly do this!<br /><br />Thanks all - will let you know the outcome. I want to get this 9.5 ready, working and on the fishing boat for fall fishing.

 

[lark2004]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

beware the "helpful" neighbour. Do they really know what they are doing? If you are confidant in your own abilities and have the manual, then you can do it yourself and know that it is done right, "by the book".

 

[mcdgary]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

I use a plastic trash container frequently. I used it for my 9.8 Merc and now my 25 HP Merc and 115 Evinrude (with prop removed on this one). Last week I was attempting to set the timing on the 25 Merc in gear, full throttle. This blows all the water out and it's scary as hell at full throttle -- abandoned this. To drain: ciphon water out; I fill a water hose full from tap, disconnect keeping water in the hose, put one end of hose in container and other down to ciphon water out.

 

[stealurface]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

I hear Lark - there is one neighbor up there who knows his stuff. He is about 75 and used to own a machine or tool and die shop. He actually balances and tunes/molds his own props - GOOD guy. When I first got the jon-boat he noticed I did not have a lock for it. We got it started running well etc. Next day he shows up at the cottage with a motor lock he fabricated the night before! Like a said - good guy. He loves this stuff.<br /><br />Get this too - 75 and still slalom's....with a wet start.<br /><br />mcdgary - I'll just put on my wet suit <br /><br />Anyway - I'll let you guys know how it goes. This forum is a blessing for me, as I am not well versed in the skills most of you obviously are. I'm learning though!

 

[skeezx01]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

awsome neighbor! mine call the cops if i make noise out back.

 

[DJ]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

ANY type of engine running is a "siren" call to all unoccupied males within earshot. <br /><br />Same rule applies to power tools. <br /><br />It's genetic.

 

[v12mac]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

You said it! I had a neighbor with a blown big block street rod that would bring us all out when he fired it up.<br /><br />Mac

 

[stealurface]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

UPDATE - Verified year - 1966 MQ-12A Johnson 9.5<br /><br />Done to this point.<br /><br />1. Decarb with Seafoam.<br />2. New Plugs <br />3. Bought new water pump and impeller kit - neightbor who worked boats a lot said it looked fine - took lower unit to Marina - they concurred. I kept the kit til next year.<br />4. New gas.<br /><br /><br />Friday - been sitting for 1 week - put engine in barrel - attached gas - and 1st pull - started right up. Idled low well, high well. Stopped the engine and started again - NO PROBLEM. <br /><br />Saturday morn - changed oil just in case. FIRST PULL - started - same thing good idle. Stopped - started again on 2 or 3 pulls. Put on boat - ran like a top.<br /><br />Ran down a canal = hit brush engine stopped. (Verified everything was fine - no damage) WOULD NOT START. Tried for 15 - 20 minutes. Would not start. Luckily I was within walking distance to cottage - grabbed 7.5 - put it on an brought her back.<br /><br />I noticed an ODD amount of fuel dripping from the connect from fuel line to engine. I thought it was flooded - but I waited long enough before restarts.<br /><br />Put BACK in bucket - COULD NOT get the thing to start AT ALL. <br /><br />Went to Marina - asked if it could be a fuel pump problem - they said probably not - recomended Carb Kit - I bought it.<br /><br />5. Rebuoilt Card - tell you what - the parts I replaced looked IDENTICAL to the ones already in there - I think this thing was rebuilt two years ago.<br /><br />Started the unit up - after 5 or 6 pulls she fired right up. Stopped - started 1, then after that = 20+ pulls and WAITS in between - she would not start.<br /><br />It is as if it is hit or miss - sometimes she goes and then sometimes not.<br /><br />Tell you waht though - MAN the SMOKE was HUGE when decarbing - Glad you guys told me to not do that in the garage.<br /><br />Any ideas what to try next? <br /><br />Thanks - CM

 

[stealurface]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Decarb - Friday night - there was smoke everywhere!!! I would SOL had I done this in the garage. <br /><br /> http://www.myfishingpictures.com/watermark.php?file=500/4670DCP01265.JPG <br /><br />Next day - before putting on boat<br /><br /> http://www.myfishingpictures.com/watermark.php?file=500/4670DCP01271.JPG <br /><br />I am going to go ahead and install the new waterpump and completely re-build lower gear unit - might as well since I have gone this far.<br /><br />Also going to get new connector for the fuel line where it connects to engine. If that does not do anything after I run a fuel line test as recomended in the manual, I MAY replace the fuel pump.<br /><br />Thanks for the advice all.

 

[DJ]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Chasmo,<br /><br />Whoa! Rebuilding the lower unit is an involved process and certainly not necessary unless you have shifting problems and/or leaks.<br /><br />To run, the engine needs three things.<br /><br />1. Spark, at the right time.<br /><br />2. Compression.<br /><br />3. Fuel/air mix.<br /><br />One of those is missing. Just because you had all those before doesn't mean you do now.<br /><br />Recheck everything.<br /><br />If your engine has points/condensers and is a magneto ignition (can't remember on a '68') your encounter with the brush may have sheared your flywheel key. You may have spark, just not at the right time.

 

[stealurface]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Thanks for the advice - I will take it.<br /><br />Next step:<br /><br />1. Fuel connector replacement then fuel test.<br /><br />Quesion 1 - compression - would the fact that the engine runs fine when I can start it mean compression is good?<br /><br />You hit the nail on the head "just not at the right time." The thing sat for a week and at 1 pull it started, sat for a night and 1 pull start. It was hit or miss, when it was warm it seemed - would not start, sometime would. But 100% of the time if I had it out and running and then came back and stopped - it would just not start.<br /><br />It is a '66 - I verified when I checked the tag MQ-12a was the model I believe. So it should have points (manual not here) <br /><br />Do I really need a "fly wheel puller" as shown inthe manual or is there another method to pull the thing?<br /><br />It really seems like the thing is not getting gas or the spark - it is intermittent.

 

[BF]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Yup, if you have a bad fuel fitting, maybe it's as simple as that! Maybe its sucking some air.<br /><br />As for ignition things...<br /><br />I bought a '70 25 hp this spring. I pulled the flywheel to replace the points/condensers and found a coil badly cracked. The engine started and ran OK in a barrel as it was. My guess is that the coil would've started shorting and running poorly once it warmed up good. I replaced both coils and point/condensers... now I know the ignition should be OK for quite a while. <br /><br />If your flywheel has the 3 holes on the top, an automotive harmonic balancer puller, less than $20 from auto parts store, seems to work good. I forget what the threads of those holes are maybe 1/4 x 20 ??. You might need to pick up some bolts of the right size... It's a good time to start an "Outboard tools" tub if you don't have one already. Spark tester and compression gauge would be good to buy too if you don't have 'em already. And don't use a jaw puller from the edges of the flywheel.<br /><br />oh, and you can probably tell with a timing light without pulling the flywheel if the timing is way off (sheared key). But, my guess is you wanna pull the flywheel to check over the ignition anyway.<br /><br />I think it's wise to check compression before putting $$$ into an engine. Then at least you know where you're starting from. It would've been interesting if you had checked before and again after doing the decarb'ing.<br /><br />good luck.

 

[stealurface]

Re: Running in a "bucket"

Want to use same thread for same work.<br /><br />Question - I pulled the lower unit - there was a gasket on it that was severly degraded. Do I need to order another or can I use a "seal maker" product such as Permatex RTV sealant?<br /><br />Thanks for the advice thus far. Will be checking the fuel system this weekend.