Sea King 12 Starting Issues

[Jerry McGee]

Hey smart people,

The problem:

I've got a 1956 Sea King 12 that I've done a bunch of work too, but it still will not run for more than a few seconds. After which, it stalls and will not run no matter what I try. The only thing that works is time and after an hour or so, I can get it to run for another second or two and then the process starts all over again.

The repairs:

Along with water pump, I've also changed points, plugs, coils, fuel pump and rebuilt the carb and although I'm new to boating and outboards, I've had over 40 cars in my life and I've always done my own repairs so I do have solid skills just not the one I need at the moment which happens to be troubleshooting. Point being, I did in fact rebuild the carb properly and gap points etc. to specs so it has to be something outside of that. I'll add that there's loads of compression as well.

The solution:

Thanks in advance!

 

[nwcove]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

with all new ignition parts , you "should" be able to rule that out. time to look at fuel delivery....are the plugs dry after it stalls? or soaked with fuel?

edit: whats the compression numbers? have you done an open air spark gap test??

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

The plugs are soaked with fuel. The compression numbers escape me at the moment because we tested them over a year ago, but they were well within specs which is why we picked up the motor. By open air spark gap test, do you mean plugs out but connected to wires to see if they indeed have spark or do you mean buy a gap tester and see if they jump a required distance?

with all new ignition parts , you "should" be able to rule that out. time to look at fuel delivery....are the plugs dry after it stalls? or soaked with fuel?

 

[nwcove]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

i'd verify spark will jump 1/4 inch with a spark tester right after it stalls. if it passes that test, move on to the carb .....id start with confirming that the float needle is seating . jmo

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

I couldn't find that tool at three different places, but I did find an inline spark tester which looks like a standard test light with a male and female spark plug end on either side so I grabbed it because I thought it would come in handy somewhere down the road. I hooked it up to the motor and although I'm not 100%, it looks to me like I am getting spark on first few pulls and then nothing. Does that sound like something you're familiar with? I'll double check, but after many pulls the first time, I can almost say for certain that it stops after a couple. Back to it...

EDIT: Seems to be sparking as it should. Maybe bad angle or something the first time.

Float needle is seating properly as I've tested many, many times.

i'd verify spark will jump 1/4 inch with a spark tester right after it stalls. if it passes that test, move on to the carb .....id start with confirming that the float needle is seating . jmo

 

[twocyclemania]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

If the motor starts and promptly stalls and the plugs are soaked and you have to wait an hour or so (for the cylinders to dry out) it sounds like it's getting too much fuel. Are you sure the carb float is not in upside down. I've done that. I know you stated you replaced the fuel pump but just to make sure; does it have a single or double line fuel hose. I was also under the impression that the older (12) Sea King / Gales had a tank on top with gravity feed. Just trying to eliminate anything.

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Float is in properly, the hose is a single line and it does not have the gravity feed tank on top.

 

[F_R]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

How far to you have those mixture needles open? Sure sounds to me like it is flooding (too rich).

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Low speed knob is set at 1-1/2 turns out and high speed is set at 1 turn out.

How far to you have those mixture needles open? Sure sounds to me like it is flooding (too rich).

 

[F_R]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Screw that high speed one in to about 5/8 and try again.

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Ok, tried that, but still nothing.

I remember when I bought the points and condensers, the remaining package on the shelf looked like a taped up return and even though I hesitated, I ended up getting it after all mostly due to the fact that it was there and my sources were limited. I bought a new set just now and I am going to install shortly. I'll be back with my findings. Thanks

EDIT: Still nothing.

Screw that high speed one in to about 5/8 and try again.

 

[twocyclemania]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

There's a remote possibility that one of the coils are bad (or condenser, points). In other words; you're firing on one cylinder. I've had quite a few motors that ran fairly well but would crap out. They were actually running on one cylinder. The cylinder without the spark is getting fuel but it's not being burned. I know it sounds like a fuel problem but sometimes the ignition will surprise you. Outboards can run great or they can drive you crazy. Just something to rule out.

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Bought second set of new points and condensers today, installed and nothing changed. Bought inline spark tester and there's spark to the plugs themselves. Then I took the plugs out and tested them both to see if they were sparking as well and they are.

I'm afraid this motor would fall under the latter category that you mentioned.

There's a remote possibility that one of the coils are bad (or condenser, points). In other words; you're firing on one cylinder. I've had quite a few motors that ran fairly well but would crap out. They were actually running on one cylinder. The cylinder without the spark is getting fuel but it's not being burned. I know it sounds like a fuel problem but sometimes the ignition will surprise you. Outboards can run great or they can drive you crazy. Just something to rule out.

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

It's alive!

I took the baffle off the carburetor, looked inside and noticed that the rear butterfly was closed, so I held it open and it started right up. Holding it open while pulling on the cord is a bit of a challenge though and it looks like there may be something wrong with either the linkage or throttle control cam whereas they're not making enough contact to push the linkage down and open the butterfly.

I know the linkage can't, but does anyone know if that throttle control cam can be adjusted to put a little more action on that linkage while in start position?

Thanks

 

[nwcove]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

sounds like your linkage is on wrong. i assume the motor has the neutral safety stop on it? if so, put it in gear and twist the throttle to wide open, have a look to see if the throttle plate is fully open.( motor not running obviously)

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Yes, it does have the neutral safety stop and the butterfly seems to open just fine when twisting to wide open. I am thinking a very small adjustment here, like 1/16" would do the trick. I see a couple of hex heads underneath the cam and without blindly removing them to "see if this works", could you tell me if that cam can be slid outward? Not rotated, but slid outward?

If I were to put a paper match between linkage arm and the cam, it'd start. That's how close we're talking about.

Thanks!

sounds like your linkage is on wrong. i assume the motor has the neutral safety stop on it? if so, put it in gear and twist the throttle to wide open, have a look to see if the throttle plate is fully open.( motor not running obviously)

 

[nwcove]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

is there a mark on the cam...maybe two? and yes , there should be adjustment on the narrow end of the cam. if there is a mark on it, set it to just begin to open the throttle plate when the arm touches the cam. ( or if two marks....when in the middle).

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Ok, got it. There is a single mark and it is lined up just perfectly. It starts right up with no problems at all. The new problem is that when I turn tiller handle slightly clockwise to "shift", the linkage arm loses contact with the cam and the motor shuts off. Essentially, "shift" "slow" and "stop" have the exact same result... "stop". Is this new boater ignorance here or are these indicators supposed to correspond to a similar action?

Thanks!

is there a mark on the cam...maybe two? and yes , there should be adjustment on the narrow end of the cam. if there is a mark on it, set it to just begin to open the throttle plate when the arm touches the cam. ( or if two marks....when in the middle).

 

[nwcove]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

the slow, shift, fast marks on the tiller are just a reference, and are probably not even close to what you think they should be. go by ear....you will get used to the sound of the motor , and know when its getting close to running to slow. shift it firmly and quickly when its idling, and all should be ok.

 

[Jerry McGee]

Re: Sea King 12 Starting Issues

Excellent! I thank you and everyone else here who's helped me get this little gem up and running. Tomorrow it's going on the lake so I can dial in high and low speed controls. While I'm at it, I'll try to find time for some fun as well. :joyous:

Thanks again!

the slow, shift, fast marks on the tiller are just a reference, and are probably not even close to what you think they should be. go by ear....you will get used to the sound of the motor , and know when its getting close to running to slow. shift it firmly and quickly when its idling, and all should be ok.