Sea wall issues/ dilemma- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Well I am not sure where this should go but this will have to do....

Our summer residence is on Chaumont Bay,which is a large bay just off Lake Ontario just up the Bay from Bondo-O a fellow I-boats member. The water level here changes a good 3-3.5' a year and pending on the winds in the spring can reap HAVOC on our sea walls, which is has done at least 3 times in my life and I'm 24. Our neighbors invested before the Iraq war in having their seawalls done in the steel which have held up for a good 6-7 years now and done for a song compared to what we were quoted. Our 120' section we'd need was quoted to us at $25,000 way out of the question, when our neighbors got ~1,200' done for $10k 6-7 years prior. So we are looking for alternatives because our wall needs to be fixed yet again. Here are some pictures of what we're dealing with.

Here is our neighbors wall and you can see how drastic the water changes.

 

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Here is our seawall now, its made out of rail road ties which have been re-barred together with intermittent dead men laid into the bank on the base and cabled in from on top. Everyone's seawall use to be made all like this. Mind you the wall needs to be fix because of this nasty lean it has..

On the far side of our wall in this picture you can see a concave in the wall and rocks pushed up where the ice pushed the wall in soo much, our water well is 15' back from the top of the wall and it crack our well top, and pushed it 6" backwards.

 

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

As much as I would love the steel wall, we just cannot fork out that much cash on a seawall in our lovely economy. If I had the tools and machinery I would attempt it myself but that is just not possible either. So I am looking for ideas that others have use in climates which combat ice and that are lasting. That is the main thing, Vinyl, wood will just bust and concrete and stone blocks will just be eventually pushed out of the way and unaligned.

My current personal idea is rip rap topped with large flat limestone like our boat slip is done, just not sure our DEC will approve of it. Any thoughts or idea is appreciate. Thanks !

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Whatever you decide to do you are fortunate that the DNR in your area even allows you to make a shoreline modification. Takes an act of congress to do that here in the tundra and steel would certainly not be allowed. All natural like rock -- maybe.

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

TMBW -

My parents are also on Three Mile Bay, just around the corner from Duck Harbor. Last year, they invested in having a retaining wall put in across the front of their property to stem the errosion. The contractor used rip rap along the bottom, then on top of that he built the retaining wall. This is about 6 - 8' (depending on grade) stacked offset blocks. Every 3 levels of blocks, they applied geo-mesh and tied it back into the bank. All of the retaining wall block is above normal high water (but not 100 year mark). The rip rap takes the water action quite well. If you happen to be out there (either ice fishing, or next spring when the water "softens"), their place is on the south side of the point, west of duck harbor, second house up from the creek that flows into the bottom of that cove. You can miss their place and the neighbors, both had walls installed. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures and post them.

 

[joed]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

We have similar situation on Lake Erie. Most of the sewalls are concrete or the steel piles you have. Some have used armour stone (huge boulders) But I have seen them get moved by by big storms and need to be reset. These stone are huge. Two of them come on flatbed 18 wheeler.
There's also those huge concrete blocks that get made from the left over concrete at the mix plants. Same problem though, big storms will move them is not anchored properly.

Not sure what the cost is but heavy machinery is required.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Ayuh,... While steel sheet piling is no doubt the Best,...
Bach, 'n Sons does a 'ell of a job with massive local limestone...

Have ya called Butchy, 'n asked them for an estimate,..??

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Found a couple of pics, unfortunately - nothing close up.

Bond-o gives good advice on Bachs. We worked with them on a job over in Black River Bay, at the campground. They did some blasting, lined an area with rip rap and weren't too bad on the price.

 

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

We've dealt with bach before, they are the ones who did our neighbors wall. They also own all the property where the old "Barge's" restaurant use to be next to us and we have a contract with them to grade our gravel road every year. They are the ones who quoted us the $25k to do our wall. Soo were not too inclined to ask them for anymore quotes. Maybe we'll have to do some more looking around for other contractors who may deal in the same business.

I've seen your camp before, one of the nicer ones up in our area. We do a lot of sight seeing at everyones camp once or twice a year looking for general ideas.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

I am partial to Gabion Baskets and they are used quite a bit around the lakes here in VT and in river's too. Since they are baskets they allow water flow and do not disrupt with the ice.

 

[rbh]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Pull the frontage rocks out, remove the old ties and replace with new ones.
Overlap and stagger the first 2 layers of ties for the distance you need to go and dill 1 inch holes for anchor pins, beginning, end and half way between the stagger
Pound the pins through ties into lake shore 3-4 foot deep if possible, continue building wall to half way mark/height, at that point attach galvinized cable 5/16 min to the anchor rods (this is your guy back to your ground anchor point)
contiue building to prefered height is met.
Attach guys to anchor points and apply tension till wall slopes back 5-10 degrees, backfill and enjoy.

Just my .02c anyways

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

A lot of the old sea walls around me that go back to the 50s are built with bags of concrete laid on top of each other and tilted back at an angle. Do not know if that would hold up to the ice though.
My take, no offense but that is one ugly sea wall ! If that is the third one in your 24 years, that means they give up the ghost in 6 years and just laid around in that condition for 2 years. Not a good investment Plus when the next seawall is do for replacement, you may not be allowed to do it anymore. Start doing it right like your neighbors have done even if you cant do it all at one time. At least you will have a start. Also consider having your wife get a second job, tell her it is for a good cause. Also consider relatives that might leave their jewelery laying around the house, if it is laying around, they dont need it. EDIT Main thing is to do it right so you dont have to do it again. regards FRED PS, judging from the pictures, you should get a front end loader in front of your new seawall and dredge all that out. That way you can bring your boat up to your new wall even at low tide.

 

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

The problem with the ice where we are, is that the water level is not even touching the wall in the winter. Its in the spring when everything thaws and the ice starts to move, this is when we get the damage. Ice masses will pretty much destroy anything in their paths and since the water is extremely low it smashes right into everything. We have roughly 1" of muck/mud then its solid limestone so drilling and anchoring into that is a problem without heavy machinery.

The rail road ties have worked for the 40 + years my family has owned this property, we're just getting sick of having to fix it every 5-6 years or so, and hoping for a more modern look. Thanks for every ones input so far.

 

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Little update, we've contacted Bach & co for an estimate on the limestone blocks (similar to the ones at the Blue Heron restaurant in Chaumont) and widening out boat slip 3 feet on each side, which ultimately would lessen the cost a little bit. Also told them we were open to other alternatives. If these quotes are obnoxiously high, I guess from talking to my grandfather and other family members were going to rip everything out and start from scratch from new rail road ties so they aren't 40+ years old and weak. We shall see, I am crossing my fingers on the limestone blocks.

 

[Tra_seas_wake]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread but I just ran across it on iBoats. Was wondering what you decided to do, if anything yet? We also own a cottage on Three Mile Bay not far from you and will need to preform some shoreline repairs this spring. I am wondering how DEC is to work with up there...and if they required premits. Thanks

 

[Bondo]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread but I just ran across it on iBoats. Was wondering what you decided to do, if anything yet? We also own a cottage on Three Mile Bay not far from you and will need to preform some shoreline repairs this spring. I am wondering how DEC is to work with up there...and if they required premits. Thanks

Ayuh,.... Dec, the Corp. of Engineers, the Town, the County, 'n maybe some other State agencies...

That's the Biggest advantage of hirin' a contractor like Bach, 'n Co.... They do it everyday...

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Everything looked fine until that 4th pic...is that snow ??!!

Easier to move....Florida is nice this (read:all) time of the year...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Re: Sea wall issues/ delema- Trying to rectify...Pics inside..

Is there a reason we are digging up this year old thread?