Second outdrive in the past month!

[hawkrdr]

Hi ya!
OK so it is a new to me 24' Monterey Bowrider 5.0 Merc Alpha 1 Gen II outdrive.
14" 19 degree 3 blade stainless prop.

First time out in the boat, the upper in a relatively new outdrive (one year old se116 replacement outdrive) and the upper gear box completely freezes up, later inspection shows chunks all through the upper housing, gears are torn up (1:68 ratio).
Under warranty so get it replaced.
New drive on the boat. Still going through the breakin (first 5 hours do not exceed 3/4 throttle, don't exceed 3500rpm etcc.) finally get to the 5-10 hour period where I can exceed this in short bursts (not bursts, slow on the throttle up, hold rpm at around 3800, and slow back down to about half throttle , 2500-2800 rpm). Well at 6 hours I hear the same noise as I heard the first time.. loud clacking and boat no longer has forward thrust.

Had a licensed marine repair shop do the work, so is there something that could be causing this boat to chew up outdrives? Could there be something I am doing?
This is not my first boat, so I don't think I am being an idiot with it.....
Drive lube was full, never went low. Wasnt messing with trim at all.
Just looking for some insight..


Thanks in advance.

 

[Don S]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Are you just replacing the upper and not the lower? or are you replacing the complete outdrive each time.

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

First time it was upper and lower. This past time it was the upper only, on mechanics recommendation.
With the engine off, and drive engaged, I can spin the prop freely. There is a clicking sound as the prop spins however.
So did I dork up by not replacing both? My mechanic did test the complete outdrive before giving the boat back, or so I thought.
Back to my original question though, is there something else that could be causing these failures, that I could be doing with the boat?
On a side note, I have now noticed that I can put the drive in gear without pressing the neutral saftey button.

 

[Don S]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Oil is shared between the upper and lower. IF you have metal particles in the oil for a while, it can and will move from the upper to the lower or vise-versa which ever one starts going first.
What is your idle rpm when you shift, to high and rpm can damage the drive.
The big question here is HOW did it fail. They can fail in many ways. Was the gear oil full of metal particles? Did a shaft break? Was the gear lube level correct? Where there leaks?

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

I haven't pulled the drive yet or even checked the drain for metal particles, lube reserve was sitting at the correct level. I think the engine rpms were around 8-900 when going into gear, don't remember now, but it was below 1k i know that. It kills me that I have had this boat now for 1 month and I have now burned an upper and most likely now, the lower. The PO had put a new complete outdrive from SEI last year. Worked fine for him for 1 year... Thankfully these are warrantied. But the labor is not...

 

[fossill]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

I think the engine rpms were around 8-900 when going into gear, don't remember now, but it was below 1k i know that.

Should be 650 rpm, 600 if efi

 

[joncrisler]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Any chance the engine is supercharged or turbocharged and your putting out more than 400 hp ? That would break a Alpha That said, I dont have any ideas- what lube are you using ? I knew a guy who did not want to spend money on outdrive lube and had a bunch of 5w20 motor oil for this cars, and used that instead. I have NO idea what he was thinking, but the drive only lasted a few hours and he had a toasted gear set.

Also, check the shift interupter-

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Should be 650 rpm, 600 if efi

eeh.. Like I said.. I think.. I wasn't to sure.. I will have to look at it.

joncrisler -
From the color it appeared to be drive lube.

 

[joncrisler]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Lube color- they come in all sorts of colors- dark amber, light amber, dark blue, dark green. The amber colored lubes can be mistaken for motor oil except that they are significantly thicker. One thing all drive lubes seem to have in common- they have a strong, bad smell, while motor oil has a faint smell or almost oderless.

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Lube color- they come in all sorts of colors- dark amber, light amber, dark blue, dark green. The amber colored lubes can be mistaken for motor oil except that they are significantly thicker. One thing all drive lubes seem to have in common- they have a strong, bad smell, while motor oil has a faint smell or almost oderless.

it is dark blue.

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Tore the drive apart today, Another failed upper.. Called SEI today to open warranty on both drive units, come to find out the gear ratio that placed in these is not correct for my sized boat. Currently has 1.62 and they recommend 1.47. Getting both replaced with proper gearing in the drive units, according to SEI the 1.62 is a very weak gear set.... geee.. you think???

Thanks all for the input! Hopefully we will be back on the water next week, they have a 3 day turn around.

 

[Don S]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

according to SEI the 1.62 is a very weak gear set.... geee.. you think???

That's odd. Mercruiser uses 1.62 gears on the 220 hp carbed 5.0L engines with no problems. Guess the SEI gears aren't up to the task like the OEM gears are. But the SEI's are 1/3 the price of the OEM, wonder how they could save that much money over OEM. Hmmmmmmm.

http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/inboards/sterndrives/tks5l_specs.php

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

My question to them was, Is my prop now going to need to be changed? I have a 19 degree 3 blade stainless.


I would think it would perform a little better with the newer gear ratio

 

[sschefer]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

So if my count is right, this boat has torn up at least 4 outdrives. Has the engine been checked for alignment or are we just throwing outdrives at it.

 

[Don S]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

First of all, props aren't measured in degrees, they are measured in inches of pitch.
The only way you will know for sure is by running it and seeing what your WOT (Wide Open Throttle) rpm is with the different gear ratio.
You will probably have to change pitch.
Once you get your WOT rpm, you will know if and how much you have to change it. If you are below specs, post your question over in the prop forum to get your answers.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

So if my count is right, this boat has torn up at least 4 outdrives. Has the engine been checked for alignment or are we just throwing outdrives at it.

Hmm, I have never heard that mis-alignment can damage a drive......

 

[Don S]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

Hmm, I have never heard that mis-alignment can damage a drive......

You are correct. Mis-alignment takes out couplers, not outdrives.

 

[hawkrdr]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

While I was at the mechanics shop he had two other sei 116 outdrive uppers being warranty replaced due to very similar gear failures.
..sorry, I have degree stuck in my head for the pitch for some reason.
I have now had two failed uppers, and the po had one failed last year. I don't think the po ever ran the boat all that much after he replaced the full outdrive.

What has happened is the teeth are getting busted up on the upper horizontal gear (sorry, don't know the correct nomenclature for the part.)

 

[Don S]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

I think you misunderstand what I am saying. I'm not disputing that there is a problem with the 1.62 gears in the SEI drive, what I am saying is that the OEM drives do not have that problem. Cheap knock off gears manufactured by the lowest bidder with no quality control is why the gears are failing. If you had OEM gears, it wouldn't be a problem, except it costs more.

 

[Pete104]

Re: Second outdrive in the past month!

How are they/you filling the gearcase? When both "upper & lower" are assembled. It sounds like they are getting the "shift & water pump" aligned OK. Do a pressure check, no? Then fill it, from the bottom! I don't want to believe there is that much "junk" out there!