Sending audio signals through phone cables?

ZmOz

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I have four different good sounding stereo systems in different areas of my house. I would really love to be able to hook them all up to the same source at the same time (my ipod) so I could have music in every room. :) <br /><br />On to my question. I have no land line, only a cell phone, which leaves an unused jack in every room with a 4 conductor cable already wired to each one. Would it be possible to disconnect any wiring from the phone company, and then make an adapter that would plug my ipod into a phone jack? Or would the wires be too long/small gauge? I don't know much about how audio signals work...<br /><br />If this doesn't work I'm probably going to get an FM transmitter to do this, but the good ones are over $100, and as you guys know, I'm a cheap *******. :D
 

eurolarva

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

The biggest problem you will have using the phone line will be a poor impedence match. Most speakers want 8 ohms and I doubt you can achieve or get that from a phone line.
 

ndemge

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

your talking about sending the signal, not power to the speakers...<br /><br />heck, give it a try, ya never know, can't hurt nuthin!
 

Paul Moir

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Noise might be a problem, but you won't know for sure unless you try. One other thing to look out for, assuming the house was wired with quad, there's no guarantee that the yellow/black pair is connected throughout the house. So you may end up having to pop open a few jacks to splice them together. Or (horrors!) living with mono.
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

I think if you send unamplified signal it would work.<br /><br />Ken
 

ZmOz

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Originally posted by NoelMG:<br /> your talking about sending the signal, not power to the speakers...
Exactly.<br /><br />
Originally posted by Paul Moir:<br />One other thing to look out for, assuming the house was wired with quad, there's no guarantee that the yellow/black pair is connected throughout the house.
Yeah, only one pair is hooked up in all the outlets, but the other is there. I just have to screw it in. I'm thinking I might just replace the phone jacks with audio jacks.<br /><br />
Originally posted by Paul Moir:<br /> Or (horrors!) living with mono.
How dare you even suggest such a thing! :p
 

TresGatos

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Two telephone twisted pairs should work fine for a stereo audio input (e.g. AUX IN) to a single stereo system in a room. (forget about driving speakers with 26AWG wire). It would always be preferable to use shielded pairs but telephone pairs should work ok for short distances.. but.. spliting the signal into 4 different signals without a distribution preamp will cause a -7db signal loss for each room which will require you to crank up the volume of the Ipod to compensate..probably causing distortion and background noise.
 

ndemge

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Did you give a it a try yet?<br /><br />And do you have a spool of phone wire laying around, could do a bench test with 100' of wire and see if it works
 

ZmOz

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Originally posted by NoelMG:<br /> Did you give a it a try yet?
No, I have't been able to try it yet. I had to send my ipod away for warranty work so I won't be able to until they get around to sending it back...
 

QuadManiac

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

You will have no problems at all doing this.

Analysis from an electrical engineer with 25 years experience and a penchant for doing things that others say are impossible:

Issue 1: Impedence

Since you are dealing with audio frequencies any impedence mismatch will not be noticeable. Regular speaker wire is not 8 ohm impedence. Only at radio frequencies and higher is this an issue. NOT A PROBLEM

Issue 2: 28 guage wire.

28 guage wire has a resistance of about 6 ohms per 100 feet. So, assume that your longest run will be approx 50 feet, that's 6 ohms total for the trip out and back... what this means is that you will lose almost half of your power in the wire. (6 ohms in wire vs 8 ohm speaker) So what? It takes TEN times the power to DOUBLE the volume that you hear. So half the power lost will be barely noticable.

The inductance of 28 guage wire does make the 3dB cutoff frequency for 100 feet driving an 8 ohm speaker somewhere around 100kHz. So there should be no noticable high frequency loss in the audio, but certainly none that turning up the treble control slightly won't take care of.

Issue 3: Niose

As long as you are using the phone wires to send power to speakers, not as a low level signal transport to drive another amplifier, no problem. The 8 ohm impedence at the load end is low enough that the millivolts of noise that is coupled into the phone wires will be unhearable.

Issue 4: Disconnecting from the phone company

If your house has been built in the last 40 years, the phone company attaches to you home wiring with the same kind of plug that is on your phone, usually at the cable's entrance into your garage. Simply unplug this rj-45 plug, and you are free to do whatever you wish with your home's wiring.


The only issue is one of power. 26 guage wire is rated at 2.2 amps (this is for continuous current and is very conservative). This equates to approximately 32 watts at the speaker. However, this wire should have no real problem handling twice to four times that current intermittently (and a very, very small portion of audio signals are at full power). Since power is a function of current squared, at 4 amps you would be able to provide about 130W max at the speaker. This should be plenty for most applications, and short bursts of 8 amps would provide ~500W briefly, WAY more than necessary. This is the only issue, however, that may be seen as a detractor for using the phone wires. I don't really see it as a problem.


The discussion above was in reference to driving speakers directly through the phone wires. However, just about all of these arguments work the same for driving the phone lines with your iPod. The headphone impedence (and therefore the maximum output impedence of the iPod) is usually a little higher, 32 ohms or so, but this doesn't change much. The higher you turn the iPod's volume, the less likely you will have noise problems creeping into the other end. I would suggest using audio isolation transformers at each amplifiers input (available at radio shack for a few bucks each). Some stereo chassis have hot grounds, and you don't want to create a huge ground loop across multiple rooms and a hundred feet of wire. The 60Hz pickup could be huge, but the isolation transformers will eliminate this issue.

In reference to the 7dB loss due to multiple connections - only true if the load impedence matches the driver's impedence. The typical input impedence of a low level amplifier is, i believe, 10k ohm. Since the iPod's driver is no higher than 30 ohms or so, it would have to see a whole lot of amplifier's inputs before any loss is noticeable.

I realize now that this original post was several months ago... I hope it does somebody some good.

By all means try it. It should work quite well.

Good luck!
 

rwise

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

it works, I have seen it done both ways listed above with no real problems. isolation transformers is a good idea.
 

BoatBuoy

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

QuadManiac, just a question of curiosity - would selection of speakers be significant in this application. That is, would super efficient speakers work better or would ambient line noise offset any benefit?
 

QuadManiac

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

QuadManiac, just a question of curiosity - would selection of speakers be significant in this application. That is, would super efficient speakers work better or would ambient line noise offset any benefit?

I suspect that, because of the low speaker impedence, noise induced in the wire will not be an issue. The more efficeient the speaker, the more sound pressure level available per unit power delivered, so they'll be louder with all other conditions the same. IF noise were to be an issue, the more efficient the speaker(louder) the more noticeable the noise also. But I really don't see that as being a problem.

Mind you, all this is from theory, and from some quick analysis I did last night for the 'halibut'. But you can't beat the laws of physics. It should work.
 

ZmOz

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Wow, old thread. I ended up customizing some Compaq network thin clients to play the audio through my wireless network. Now I can control the volume on each room individually, all from one touch screen. :D
 

QuadManiac

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Wow, old thread. I ended up customizing some Compaq network thin clients to play the audio through my wireless network. Now I can control the volume on each room individually, all from one touch screen. :D

Well that is certainly a very nice, higher tech way to do it! Costs a little more, I would bet though.
 

ZmOz

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Well that is certainly a very nice, higher tech way to do it! Costs a little more, I would bet though.

Actually, it wasn't that bad, I got 5 thin clients on ebay for $100, $50 for five wireless cards, and I already had the touch screen. All together it only cost about as much as an ipod. :D

I still feel like I need to use those phone lines for something though. :confused:
 

QuadManiac

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Can you run a standard OS on the thin clients? Sounds like a heck of a deal if you can. What are the limitations, if any?
 

ZmOz

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Re: Sending audio signals through phone cables?

Can you run a standard OS on the thin clients? Sounds like a heck of a deal if you can. What are the limitations, if any?

Sorta, they run windows NT embedded. They're kind of outdated at 266mhz/32mb, but they work fine for music. The biggest problem is the flash disk is only 96mb. :eek:
 
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