Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

[Tonygotskilz]

Ok I took my boat to a mechanic and he said the reason the motor won't shift is because one of the two cables that goes to the solonoids is disconnected....So i ran wire down the lower unit and reconnected it, and it shifted fine, then i put it in water, and nothing, so i'm thinking that the wires are spliced below the water line and there shorting....that leaves me with 3 questions.... <br />1. If i pull them the wires up above the water line and it still doesn't shift, where can i get new solonoids and do they come with the wire that connects them to the power head (i would assume they'd have 2)...also how much are they about?<br />2. Is there any way to set the lower unit to be stuck in forward... cause to forgo all this trouble i'd gladly give up the reverse function...(fyi its been stuck in neutral)<br />3. My overheat horn keeps sounding and never has before if theres wires were shorted would that cause that to happen? cause i never touch any other wires so i don't see how i could have shorted something else.... Thanx ahead of time all.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

Hi Tony...<br /><br />The solenoids are just a tad expensive. The lower solenoid is 111.19 and the upper is 107.80. <br /><br />What I'm not understanding is, you say the lower unit is stuck in neutral? Is that without power applied? These lower units were designed to go into forward with NO power applied. When all is working well, the lower unit will go into neutral once the engine is running. If it stays in neutral with power applied and the engine running when you try to shift, then thats' a problem. Trying to run yer' own wires is well, ify. Where the wires run is the exhaust area. Plain old wires will burn or be deteriorated in no time.<br /><br />Over heat horn, is the engine really overheating? You didn't say one way or the other in your post.<br /><br />Keep us posted ....thanks.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

These wires run down through the exhaust housing, with out cooling they can get burned. The original wire is molded at the upper end to effect a exhaust gas seal where it comes through the exhaust housing adapter. If you try to rig new wires with out this seal, you will suck exhaust gases into the engine cowling, and the engine will not run properly, and I mean! it will not run properly.

 

[Tonygotskilz]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

Well as far as the running wires thing i took it to a certified johnson mechanic and thats what he told me to do.... What i did wrong (and corrected today is spliced the wires below the water line...so they shorted when put in water (it shifted fine till i put it in water after i originally ran the wires) Today i fixed that but my battery was dead so i'll charge it tonight and test it tomorrow.... <br /><br />Now i've heard from many people that these engines were designed to get stuck in forward when the wires broke...but it didn't happen with mine,under power it was stuck in neutral..... <shrug> i have no idea why... The shaft when turned by hand did turn the prop though, so i'm sure its not a gearing problem.... Oh well i won't know anything till tomorrow but i'll keep you posted...<br /><br />The exhaust port thing just further confused me...the two wires ran down a little hole that i'm sure wasn't an exhaust port because the top end opens up inside the engine and its only about a half inch wide and no exhaust has ever come out of there before (and obviously since nothing connects to it no exhaust goes down there...)

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

Some folks seem to be confused between the Hydro-electric and plain Electric shift lower units. It is the Hydro-Electric which defaults to forward when it loses power. I'm fairly sure the Electric would be much more like a regular manual shift in that regard. The hydro-electrics were big heavy units which work great when they work. Mine had an unusual bearing failure which plugged things up to the degree that forward worked for a little while, then it kept changing its mind which way it wanted to go before it just quit moving. Problem is I was approaching the dock when I discovered reverse had turned into forward! Made things interesting for a moment. Good thing about the Electric shift is that there are far fewer parts (parts=$), and with a little ingenuity a manual shift leg may be installed if so desired.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

That shift wire is a molded double wire, and look's a lot like the wire on an electric flat iron. On the upper end, it has a heavier molded sleeve with ribs. When pulled through that 1/2 inch hole you speak of, it forms a snug fitting seal. Lube this wire when pulling in, or out of that 1/2 inch hole. Can you salvage your old wire by soldering, and sealing with heat shrink. I can't remember if you can buy this wire alone, or if it comes as an assembly along with the solenoids. The wire is also sealed into the solenoid hold-down cap.How did the oil look in this gearcase,those old hydro-electrics don't like water.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

I am a bit confused also. You say under power (ie, motor running) you have nothing but neutral -- correct? But you said when you turn the shaft the prop moves. The driveshaft? Are you saying that with the motor not running you can turn the flywheel and the prop moves?

 

[Tonygotskilz]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

Yes when i took the lower unit off, i can turn the drive shaft and the prop spins, but with the motor on, in neutral, forward or reverse i was getting nothing....and fyi it is a hydro-electric shift (or at least it says so on the cowling

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

If there is no power to a hydro lower unit, you have forward. Period. (Unless it broke the way mine did, an apparently rare occurrence) If the neutral solenoid is energized, you have neutral. I do not remember whether reverse is the other solenoid only or both solenoids. I'll have to go dig out my manual I guess. <br /><br />You must have power getting to the neutral solenoid. Disconnect the wires at the knife connectors and you should have forward. It would be worth repairing the wiring, but be sure you do it 100% right. (Heat shrink alone is NOT waterproof) Way far from shore is always a lousy place to find out it should have been done just a little better. (Trust me, I know all about this) Make sure the oil is free of water like R. Johnson said, and be sure it is the thinner "type C" fluid, not regular lower unit oil.<br /><br />If there is NO power to the solenoid AND you have neutral, then you have more serious problems. Mine did some strange stuff for short while before it bit the dust big time, but it is not likely you have that happening. Hope not anyway. I don't have the schematics handy, but I'm wondering if a blocking diode could be causing both problems (horn too)- I have no idea really. If it works ok with wires disconnected then you're not in too bad shape, shouldn't be too difficult to fix.

 

[Tonygotskilz]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

BTW thanx for all the help....When i said i spliced the wire below the water line i did it on the very top of the wires where they would normally be near the power head.... So theres more than enough wire to not to reach the top, what i did wrong was i didn't pull the wires all the way back up to the top because the butt connectors i used wouldn't fit through the tiny hole....I fixed that and now it should work (batt was dead so couldn't test it... I think the reason i was stuck in neutral and not forward is because one wire was still connected out of the two that go to the solonoid....sound possible? Cause i'm definite that i had neutral only, even the johnson mech. said it.... <shrug> I'll keep you all posted i should know something tomorrow morning

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

OK as I understand it, with the lower off you can turn the driveshaft by hand and the prop is locked in forward. With the lower bolted on, you can start the motor but the prop never spins regardless of what gear you have selected. Correct?<br /><br />If so, disconnect the wires to the lower unit and start the motor. It should now be in forward gear.<br /><br />If it still will not spin the prop, look to make sure its pumping water.<br /><br />Let us know what you find.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

With the engine not running, there is no way this engine will be in nuetral, or reverse. At rest, the clutch dog is held to the forward gear with quite a strong spring. When the engine is running the, the hyd. oil pump has a piston that forces the clutch dog out of engagement. Hyd. pressure shifts this engine, and that is the only thing that will shift it. The solenoids control the valveing in the pump, and that is all they do. There is a blocking diode in the system that prevents the clutch from shifting into forward gear when the key is shut off. This would cause the boat to lurch forward at shut down. What I like about this old stysem is the ease of shifting when docking the boat. I have a 1972, 125 hp Johnson on a 15 1/2 Ft. Checkmate. On a Johnson the shift switch is in the handle wich I find more convienent to shift the then Evenrude push botton system. I've had this old engine all over the shop floor many times, but never the gearcase. As for gear lube, I run the newer HPF lube as I run this engine jacked as high as it will go, and tach's out at 6500 rpm. This is not to imply that you should use this oil, stay with the correct oil. I grab every old 125 part I can get my hand's on, so if it breaks, " So what"

 

[Tonygotskilz]

Re: Shift troubles continue 1972 50hp elec. shift johnson

Having a new seperate (i think) problem with trying to start motor... checkout this post ....<br /> New Post on starting problem