Shifting Problem -- No F, only R (coupler?) photos added

[bds85466]

1982 Merc I/O 898

After a long relaxing weekend away from the boat, I came home to find my roommate fuming:

He had brought it out fishing, got out to his spot just fine. As he was going to leave, he turned the ignition on, everything normal. Shifted into forward and nothing happened except for the motor reved up with no engagement. He then kicked it back into neutral, and then down into reverse. Reverse worked just fine. He then put it back in N, and back up to F. The clutch never moved and he just kept going in R, even though the remote was in F.

LOL, he actually brought the boat home in reverse (in the middle of lake minnetonka over the Mem Day weekend), through like 2 channels!

At any rate, I'm guessing something related to the shifting, and not a failure of the $LU$. Hopefully the cable or something similar. My questions to the all knowledgeable forum are:

What are your thoughts?
Where should I begin troubleshooting?

I'm guessing I can learn a lot about the situation by shifting the remote through F-N-R and watching the cable/linkage. Currently the boat is slipped, so if there's anything I can learn before I have to take it out of the water, that would be great. Any help is as always, much appreciated.

 

[gringo2662]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Hey buddy. I have had this problem before. It could be the cause of a few things such as the adjustment on the cable has slipped. make sure that it is still locked in. I had it happen in a scarab with two screws where my starboard engine would go in reverse but not forward. I played with the cable adjustment and then got it to go in forward and not reverse. the cable had actually streched, which you will see in older boats. It did not break and it worked great i could only get one gear. replaced it and it worked great. easy way to tell it to take the cable off the top and push it into forward by hand. by taking the cable off you are bypassing the adjustment. this will only work in your hand. that adjustment is what allows for both gears. try it and see if that helps. if it shifts into both by hand then either your cable needs to be adjusted or it has streched too far and you need a new one.

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

First off, thanks for the response. I found some info on adjusting the cables for my vintage. They are linked in this other post:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=401562

I have not yet had a chance to look at the boat yet. I'm hoping/guessing something glaring will jump out at me when I move the control arm from F-N-R. I'll try and take some pictures.

So if i'm getting this right, there's a cable coming from the control, seperate from the throttle cable. This cable attaches to some linkage on the engine and translates pull into another cable which goes down through the transom to the LU and mechanically actuates the clutch into the correct gear? So there'd be two cables and possibly two sets of adjustments needed?

I'll let you know as I find more! Thanks.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

So if i'm getting this right,

Ayuh,... Start at the outdrive,+ work forward...

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

I'm a bit disheartened, but more enligtened. Stuff I'm seeing in the forum is leading me to believe that it is a failed lower shift cable -- not to mention the grease that Bondo's sellin is usually right on...

When you say start at the out drive, do you mean pull it off? Or do you mean begin with the lower shift cable?

Sooo....

I made a quick run down to the boat (slipped in the water) last night to take a look. Here's what I did in the half hour I had before it got very dark and rainy:

Located where the cable comes in from the shift control and links to the drive shift cable -- Man, this is tough to get at in my boat. The rear part of my engine is covered by fiberglass. I couldn't even see it without peeling back wires. The only way I'll truly be able to get my hands on these cables is to remove the flame arrester, coil, distributor and wires (see pics). Is this tough or a no-no?

I was able to tuck my phone back underneath to get some better angled pictures and a video of the linkage in motion. To the exact degree I do not know, but everything seems to be moving (somewhat mobile).

I had my roommate shift in to R (WOT) as I turned the prop the correct way, and it engaged. In N, it was free spinning. I then had him shift into F (WOT) and I tried turning the prop the other way. It didn't catch at all.

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Conclusions/Questions:

I'm convinced there's something wrong with the cable as I've not taken the outdrive off recently.

If I were some how able to get to this cable linkage at the motor, would it be worth trying to isolate if the cable is shot, or if it has just come out of adjustment?

After the lower shift cable is unscrewed at the motor, I should be able to try and shift it manually via pushing and pulling on the cable, right?

If I can get it to shift (prop engage while pushing/pulling) while removed, is there a possibility to make an adjustment?

How do you know if the cable is just plain shot? or if it's come loosened in the lower unit? wouldn't cable replacement be a large scale fix? Like removing the whole lower unit?

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Anyone...?

At any rate, looking at the tools and time associated (my boat is still in the water), I may just have someone look at it. I saw a guy up on the TOP side of the threads going for it...everything I read makes me shutter...

My cable connections are waaaay back underneath the stern of the boat, guarded carefully by the flame arrestor, a coil, and the distributor and wires....

 

[nola mike]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Conclusions/Questions:

I'm convinced there's something wrong with the cable as I've not taken the outdrive off recently.

If I were some how able to get to this cable linkage at the motor, would it be worth trying to isolate if the cable is shot, or if it has just come out of adjustment?

maybe. but if the cable has stretched, you won't be able to adjust it.

After the lower shift cable is unscrewed at the motor, I should be able to try and shift it manually via pushing and pulling on the cable, right?

yes. it should be VERY easy to move. like almost no resistance.

If I can get it to shift (prop engage while pushing/pulling) while removed, is there a possibility to make an adjustment?

i'd give it a shot at least, but wouldn't expect it to be successful.

How do you know if the cable is just plain shot? or if it's come loosened in the lower unit? wouldn't cable replacement be a large scale fix? Like removing the whole lower unit?

i did mine last year in 4 hours or so, having never removed the outdrive. someone else can chime in, but i recall hearing somewhere that the pre-alphas need to have the housing tapped for the newer style cable, as the originals are NLA.

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

i recall hearing somewhere that the pre-alphas need to have the housing tapped for the newer style cable, as the originals are NLA.

do you mean a hole in the gimble housing for the tool?

what's NLA? "not likely availible", or not worth a dang...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

what's NLA?

No
Longer
Available

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

so what kind of a hole needs to be tapped? is that going to be $$$?

 

[carcraze]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

As far as I know the old cable threaded in from the engine or bellows side which was a pain in the butt when I did one many years ago. The new cable threads in from the outdrive side which is easier. The threaded hole in the housing is a 1/4 18 pipe thread if memroy serves me. You have to get a 1/4 18 NPSF tap which is a 1/4 18 STRAIGHT tap not tappered and tap it all the way through from the engine or bellows side.

The tapping is not hard my problem was finding a tap when I did mine some time ago.

This is pretty much all covered in the service manuals

 

[bds85466]

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

thanks -- looks like i may take it in. shouldn't be a huge deal for a merc mechanic then.

 

[bds85466]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw me? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw me? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

We brought our boat into the mechanic and they finally got around to looking at it.

They said that the engine coupler is shot. I'm suspect because we used reverse to get it to the landing. How is this possible? Can this be diagnosed without pulling the drive?

Mechanic quoted 2400....bang.

 

[bigdaddypt]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw me? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw me? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

I'd def question that. The engine and coupler are still turning the same direction even in reverse. Question him on that definitely.

 

[bds85466]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

yeah unless something happened to the coupler at the very last second or on the 3 blocks between the landing and the mechanic -- but doubt anything did.

wouldn't the coupler need to work just the same in R?

regardless, I'm definitely pulling it from that shop to look for myself. They took 2 weeks of us hounding them to even look at it. Funny that they are so reputable.

 

[bds85466]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Any other opinions on this out there?

 

[nola mike]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

engine rotates the same way in forward or reverse. if it works in reverse, it ain't the coupler.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Not to coupler. It is the cable. Drain some oil out of the drive and see how metallic it is. If heavy, then MAYBE somthing is broke, but if it looks normal, the cable needs replaced.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Re: Mechanic Trying to Screw Me (or just a dummy)? Shifting Problem -- No F, only R

Any other opinions on this out there?

Nope,... Not til it's torn down or properly Diagnosed....

He Said's,+ What If's, ain't diagnosing Anything...