Should I buy this welder?

[itstippy]

I am not an experienced welder but I am interested in it. I have a little toy 110V 70AMP stick weld unit I use for welding nuts to broken bolts so I can turn them out, etc. I take my bigger jobs like boat trailers and such to an old-timer buddy 40 miles away who uses a big, ancient, 220V stick welder. He does nice work for what I need. Strong! So I'd like my own welder like that. I've been kinda half-arse looking for a couple years and a friend of mine works with a guy who needs to get rid of his Dad's stuff. He says this is a Hobart Industrial Welder from the 1970's that has had very little use. He wants $100 and I have to pick it up about 40 miles away (he has no truck). It sounds like a great deal to me. Will this run well on the 220V 40AMP single-phase circuit I have in my shop? Any reason not to jump at this one? I'd use it on trailer frames, mostly. I'm handy and learn quickly if I'm interested in something so although stick welding (vs wire feed) is "trickier", I'm not afraid to learn. I figure if I have something weird to weld you guys will tell me what type of rod and how much power to use. But I want a good unit to work with, and not pay too much.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Looks like it is is good shape. I would pay $100 for that. They are old work horses.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Ayuh,....

For a Hundred Bucks,...... You're Stealing it.........

 

[burroak]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Just fire it up and drag some rod before you bring it home.

 

[qaztwo]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

I have and old buzz box. I find it interesting that the old ones weigh more. More copper around the windings I guess. For a $100 its not bad.
Just going tho throw this out there, mines ac/dc and 99% of the time use dc.

 

[itstippy]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

If it throws spark I'll buy it, and learn how to use it. Thanks. It will run OK on a 220V 40amp circuit? The specs plate confuses me - it looks like "230V 102 Amp". Is that maximum power source? I don't want to change the wiring to the shop. The shop is 100 amp total - four 110V 15amp circuits and one 220V 40amp circuit. The 220V 40amp line runs a hot tub on the other side of the wall, in a sunroom attached to the garage. I plan on tying into the junction box on the shop side, and tapping into the 220V line with an outlet like you'd run an electric clothes dryer on. Then just don't fire up the hot tub and the welder at the same time. Welding while hot-tubbing is probably a poor idea anyway - the damp would screw up the welding rod and fog up my mask.

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

That should work fine and theres no reason you shouldn't be able to run it as is. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Just going tho throw this out there, mines ac/dc and 99% of the time use dc.

Ayuh,....

Ac/Dc opens you up to alot more,+ different filler rods,....
But,....
As soon as he draws an Arc with that New Welder,.......
He'll Never ever plug that little 110v box in Again......
And,...
There's plenty of rods that'll run on Ac Just Fine.....

 

[Coors]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Yeah, got and old 295 amp Sears buzzer, once used to it, good; but like Bondo said- dc is a better world.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

You should post on weldingweb.com and see what anyone there has to say about it.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

looks like it has 50amp connector on the power cable.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/catalogpages/Page-A31.pdf

Your hot tub should be on a ground fault type circuit breaker.
A welder on that circuit might not work.
You will want the welder on it's own 50amp circuit.
You can use a 40amp breaker if you already have one and upgrade to 50amp if you start tripping it often.
Looks like it comes with an extension cord, makes sure the connector cables are all rated for the 50amp.
That 102 amps on the tag seems way to high to be on the primary side. It must be the max. secondary amperage.

 

[itstippy]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Well that's disappointing news. Indeed, the entire shop and hot tub room are on a single ground fault circuit breaker, located in the house. When the electrician ran the wires from the house to the garage he installed a ground fault breaker in the basement next to the main breaker panel for the house. From there the power goes to the 100amp breaker box in the garage. If I have Christmas lights plugged into one of the 15amp circuits in the garage, and they get wet, it can kill power to the entire garage by tripping the ground fault breaker in the basement. So this welder may not run on such a setup? I've run the little 110V welder out there without blowing the ground fault. But this bigger welder may not work?

 

[qaztwo]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

It would only draw max amps at max setting. I couldn't even image cranking it up to 295 amps. That would be some serious heat.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

I would go ahead and get it and try it on the circuit.
Maybe since the short (weldings) is taking place on the secondary side it is not sensed as a short on the primary side?
I think worse case scenario would be that you change the 100amp GF breaker (that must have been some big bucks) to a regular and do the ground faulting circuit(s) from your garage subpanel. That way you can run the welder from upstream of the ground fault breaker.

 

[tommays]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

I weld all over the building and you can run a Lincoln BUZZ box on a 20 amp breaker if you keep it below the 100 setting (40 to 225) and watch you welding time (15 to 20 seconds MAX)


If you get into anything heavy you need a 50 amp breaker and still need to watch you welding time

 

[Wotknot]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Depending on when it was last used, I'd take the case off and give it a good blowing out and maybe some WD 40 spraying on some of the moving parts.

Be aware that Miller now makes Hobart welders and therefore you won't get any help from them for any kind of repair parts or manuals. I can't make out the spec # from your picture, but if you can post it, I "may" can find you an owner's manual on it, but no promises though.

Even if it doesn't work, as high as copper is now, you could probably get your money back in scrap copper alone.

Btw, the manufacture's date is part of the serial #.........that welder was mfg in 1963.

 

[itstippy]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

I finally got the welder home, did my wiring, and tried it out under low power (about 70 amps) with one of the little rods I use in my "toy" welder. It works great and I'm sure I'll be very happy with it. Thanks for telling me to go for it - the cables alone are worth the entire purchase price, I'm sure. The thing must weigh 300 lbs and has a lug on top for picking up with a crane - what a beast! I do have some questions yet.

There is no "DC" setting, but the big wheel where you set the Amp range has settings for heliarc welding. I don't intend to do any heliarc welding, but I'm curious as to what makes the settings different from "regular" welding. Are the "heliarc" settings really DC power, and could I use them to run DC rods?

The welder power cable has a three-prong 220V conector on it that was obviously added after manufacture. The cable itself looks original (?) and is four-wire. Inside the welder the red wire in the cable is cut off and taped up. So there's a black and a white hot wires going to the power input lugs on the big transformer, and a green ground wire going to the frame. No neutral. Outside the welder, at the three-prong 220V plug, also not original, the red wire is again cut off and taped.

I found instructions on the web for installing a three-prong 220V outlet, and followed them to tie into the wires in the hot tub junction box. The hot tub power box has four wires: red hot, black hot, white neutral, green ground. I wired my new three-prong outlet as such: White wire from welder to red hot wire in box. Black wire from welder to black hot wire in box. Green ground from welder to green ground wire in box. Nothing to white neutral in box. That's how the instructions I got on the web said to do it. It works. So far with my limited testing I haven't thrown the ground-fault breaker in the basement so this looks good. I'm a bit nervous about running two hots and a ground with no neutral though, even though the instructions I followd said to do so. Aren't I using ground to complete the circuit this way? Isn't that a no-no? I've never run 220V before, but I sure wouldn't use a hot and a ground to wire a 110V outlet in my house. Always a hot and a neutral for current, plus a ground for safety. Please set my mind at ease.
Also, just so I know - the two hots are running on different "phases" and that's how I get 220V out of it? By tying the two 110V hot wires together I'm getting 220V of single phase that's really two differently phased 110V sines operating on the same circiut?

 

[jameskb2]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

Correct.

Single phase is one 110, two phase is 220.

In a two phase system, 220 volts is achieved using two 110 lines. There is no "neutral". Neutral is the same as a ground wire, if you check a circuit panel you will see white neutral wires are always bussed to the "bare" wire from the service drop. The power company provides the ground.

In AC current, the wave (60 hertz) passes a line high and low (alternating) from pulse pos to pulse neg. Two phase uses phases that alternate in opposing lengths. So when one phase is pos, the second is neg. This is why there is no neutral, as the opposing phases "cancel" each other out. In a four wire 220 volt application such as a clothes dryer, there is some 110 used. The switch timer for example, or the buzzer for when it's done drying. That's why the white neutral wire is there, to allow one of the phases to act as 110 for those things.

Of interest perhaps, is you can run two 110 volt lines using three wire (with ground). The only caveat is that the two "hot" wires must be on breakers hooked to each buss in the panel (stacked on top of each other, typically). So, two 20 amp circuits can be run with a single neutral wire because under load each circuit cancels the other's phase like in 220, but if one is loaded at 10 and the other at 20, the neutral wire only has a 10 amp load on it. If both circuits have a 20 amp load the neutral has 0 amps load. Is that's clear...?

 

[Wotknot]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

The welder power cable has a three-prong 220V conector on it that was obviously added after manufacture. The cable itself looks original (?) and is four-wire. Inside the welder the red wire in the cable is cut off and taped up. So there's a black and a white hot wires going to the power input lugs on the big transformer, and a green ground wire going to the frame. No neutral. Outside the welder, at the three-prong 220V plug, also not original, the red wire is again cut off and taped.

Back then, all industrial welders never came with a cable or plug. Your welder is a single phase welder. Whoever had it before wired it with a 4 conductor wire (3 phase).....hence the red wire being cut off and taped since a 3 conductor wire is all you need for single phase.

 

[jameskb2]

Re: Should I buy this welder?

=Back then, all industrial welders never came with a cable or plug. Your welder is a single phase welder. Whoever had it before wired it with a 4 conductor wire (3 phase).....hence the red wire being cut off and taped since a 3 conductor wire is all you need for single phase.

It looks like 220 to me. The switch in the pictures is obviously a two pole switch, and if it was 110, there would be a single pole as neutral is always wired hard, not switched.

The reason the red was taped off, is someone chose to use the white wire for the second phase instead of the red. Why? Who knows. Some house electrician that works for bomar76 wired it because he always used the white wire in a two phase system. Which is normal, if there are only two conductors plus ground. Three conductors (black, red, white) should be wired black hot, red hot (if needed), white neutral and bare or green ground according to standard electrical practices. If a white is hot, such as in a switch loop, then it should be labeled so....typically by wrapping the end with black tape to signify it's use as a line side feed.