Since we have not discussed it enough recently

[CJY]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070516/pl_nm/usa_congress_gasoline_dc


I know I for one believe the oil companies. However, it is a bit like leaving the fox in charge of the chicken coop.

I thought the numbers here were interesting, which is the real reason I decided to post it.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

I don't know. It's hard for me to fantom how one station can sell the gas that comes from the same tank at the refinery almost 10 cents cheaper than the guy down the street about 10 blocks or so.
I don't think that one guy is going to cut into his profit margin that much.
He is not going to sell enough to overcome the loss.
No, it's gouging, either by the oil companies or the stations.
IMHO.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

NO!NO!NO!.......
BIG OIL GOOD!.....
It's nice to know that I am not alone.....
The USAOT has spoken!
I believe them when they say they are not robbing the eyeballs out of my head.....
Don't you?.........

​

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

Stupak said refiners are earning 70 cents in profits on every $3 gallon of gasoline sold

That's a healthy margin...

 

[QC]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

While I am bummed that Spinner pointed it out, I have to note that his post disproves all of this BS . . .

Also, words like "excess profits" prove the bias of whoever wrote this article. What the heck is an "excess profit"? Where is the group out there to save companies from excess losses? Absolutely ludicrous and I will repeat my reasons for blasting these stupid threads (trolls):

1) If oil companies are evil what words do you choose for guys with box cutters, IEDs, Child Molesters, etc. etc. etc. I save my anger, condemnation, disgust for people that hurt people. Not people that provide a legal product, legally

2) It is frankly wrong and immoral to accuse decent people of illegalities. I don't like it. See #1. Save your outrage for those that deserve it.

3) Logic alert, logic alert!! Why would one company shut down a refinery to help others?

4) Logic alert 2, logic alert 2!! Why, if they control all prices illegally and collude to force us to pay higher prices, would they stop at $3ish? Why not go straight to the highly taxed fuels of Europe? Why are we not paying $8 a gallon like our friends in England? Because the Oil companies have a heart? I don't believe that either.

5) Logic alert 3, logic alert 3!! If it is not the oil companies that are driving up fuel prices in highly fuel taxed nations (can't have it both ways, it is either taxation that makes their prices $8 or it is the evil oil companies . . .), then the blame is on those Governments there. If it is, where are the claims that the UK government is evil? Haven't they, in Z and Blo Haut logic, taken advantage of an unnatural need for fuel? Oh, that's OK because they spend it wisely on us . . . bleccchhh.

You guys are simply barking up unnecessary trees. There is enough proof in the fact that consumer prices around the globe come close to equaling each other's when you subtract tax and transportation and special blend costs. I simply fail to see why you guys don't get it.

Funny how (SBN is exempt from this), the same guys who think we should walk away from Iraq and allow Sunnis and Shiites to kill each other indiscriminately until there are none standing, are the same guys who think that Oil companies are the true evil in this world. They are also the same guys who blame the US for genocide in Rwanda. It is simply flippin' amazing

BTW, I expect no response to this as usual, which tells me I am either a total idiot, or it is no fun to respond to rational resistance to irrational fears . . .

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

While I am bummed that Spinner pointed it out, I have to note that his post disproves all of this BS . . .

Also, words like "excess profits" prove the bias of whoever wrote this article. What the heck is an "excess profit"? Where is the group out there to save companies from excess losses? Absolutely ludicrous and I will repeat my reasons for blasting these stupid threads (trolls):

The Federal Gubmint....Chrysler, S&L, etc.......​

1) If oil companies are evil what words do you choose for guys with box cutters, IEDs, Child Molesters, etc. etc. etc.

Scum!.....​

I save my anger, condemnation, disgust for people that hurt people. Not people that provide a legal product, legally

2) It is frankly wrong and immoral to accuse decent people of illegalities. I don't like it. See #1. Save your outrage for those that deserve it.

3) Logic alert, logic alert!! Why would one company shut down a refinery to help others?

You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours?​

4) Logic alert 2, logic alert 2!! Why, if they control all prices illegally and collude to force us to pay higher prices, would they stop at $3ish? Why not go straight to the highly taxed fuels of Europe? Why are we not paying $8 a gallon like our friends in England? Because the Oil companies have a heart? I don't believe that either.

The Gubmint would be forced to act by the people.....
Now, they just make ya hurt enough, but it is still bearable.....​

5) Logic alert 3, logic alert 3!! If it is not the oil companies that are driving up fuel prices in highly fuel taxed nations (can't have it both ways, it is either taxation that makes their prices $8 or it is the evil oil companies . . .), then the blame is on those Governments there. If it is, where are the claims that the UK government is evil? Haven't they, in Z and Blo Haut logic, taken advantage of an unnatural need for fuel? Oh, that's OK because they spend it wisely on us . . . bleccchhh.

Since when is Gubmint greed & corporate greed mutually exclusive?​

You guys are simply barking up unnecessary trees. There is enough proof in the fact that consumer prices around the globe come close to equaling each other's when you subtract tax and transportation and special blend costs. I simply fail to see why you guys don't get it.

Funny how (SBN is exempt from this), the same guys who think we should walk away from Iraq and allow Sunnis and Shiites to kill each other indiscriminately until there are none standing, are the same guys who think that Oil companies are the true evil in this world. They are also the same guys who blame the US for genocide in Rwanda. It is simply flippin' amazing

Who's blaming the US for Rwanda? Not me!
& the less Saracens the better, IMHO......​

BTW, I expect no response to this as usual, which tells me I am either a total idiot, or it is no fun to respond to rational resistance to irrational fears . . .

Hmmmm.....Logic alert!....Logic Alert!
Since I have responded, what are the options?...... ​

 

[QC]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

Hmmmm.....Logic alert!....Logic Alert!​

Since I have responded, what are the options?...... ​

You have not responded, you have only spewed your little sweet nothings as usual . . .

P.S. Ya know what's weird and cool? I used the "Quote" button and it only posted your final item as if it read my mind . . .

BTW, I believe that is proof that Spinner's little buddies are real and that they also control oil prices . . .

 

[12Footer]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

From one gallon of gas:

How much obscene profit does the locator make?
How much seedy profit does the driller make?
How much of your hard-earned money does the refiner make?
How about that low-life tanker driver?
And that eev-eel gas station owener?
How much does that fat-cat oil exec get?
And then, how much does the fed get?
Your local county gubment?
Your state gubment?
Who is willing to take the others money away from them, in order to get more ,or the same amount from the others?
The socialists allways target the profit makers, while suppotrting the profit MAKERS!!
And it doesn't have to be "big-oil".. Pick any "BIG" you like. This is how the left attacks "big-food" for example They do the same thing to them and other buisnesses who are INSIDIOUS enough to turn a profit!!!
.
How many other enterprises cut their customer's throat so efficiantly?
Socialism does not werk, and this is the primary reason. There are others, but those are other topics.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

1. The biggest problem we have with oil is that it is too cheap.
So long as it is cheap:
a. we have no appreciation for it, and
b. we will never seek alternatives for transport/heating/industry
c. it has caused the developed world a mountain of problems
d. technology will not advance past the invention 100+yrs back of the combustion engine.

2. The same applies to Coal. So long as it is cheap to burn to fire Electricity Turbines then alternative fuels and ideas will never be viable.

3. As for profits, any legitimate business can legally trade for for the best profit they can make.
Be thankfull Oil Companies are not doing what they could do.
There are probably more Socialist running large Corporations than there are collecting food stamps. If there wasn't, then you could well be paying many times the price for oil, and if you don't like it, then don't buy it.

3. Socialism works very well. It is Communism that dosn't.


Now that i have that off my chest......
Cheers
Phillip

 

[PW2]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

I just love these "Big Oil" threads.

1. We blame the environmentalists for the lack of new refinery capacity, or the Nimby croud for blocking them, while we should know that building a new refinery requires being located with access to a gas pipeline and access to offshore crude tankers, which virtually precludes new ones over expanding existing ones.

2. We know that global warming, or worldwide political upheaval, at some point in time is going to force us to reduce our consumption of oil, yet we expect big oil to invest billions in added production capacity that they know will be rendered obsolete sooner or later.

3. We know that by our purchases of foreign oil, we are financing our enemies, yet we expect big oil to add capacity to purchase more.

4. We are also depending on private industry and investment to invent the technology miraculously for alternate energy sources in order to render "Big Oils" current multi billion dollar infrastructure investment obsolete. That "big oil" would do anything but squash any new technology that comes along is the only mystery involved.

Makes sense to me!

 

[treedancer]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

i think i,ll stay out of this one,i,ve talked about oil so much lately my coffee is starting to taste like.....oil.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

I still say Haut (and ZmOZ) is making "excess profits" and he is attacking big oil to defer the attention.

How bout you CJY?

In a month or so the refineries should all be back online and gas will go back to 2.25

Ken

 

[CJY]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

While I am bummed that Spinner pointed it out, I have to note that his post disproves all of this BS . . .

Also, words like "excess profits" prove the bias of whoever wrote this article. What the heck is an "excess profit"? Where is the group out there to save companies from excess losses? Absolutely ludicrous and I will repeat my reasons for blasting these stupid threads (trolls):

1) If oil companies are evil what words do you choose for guys with box cutters, IEDs, Child Molesters, etc. etc. etc. I save my anger, condemnation, disgust for people that hurt people. Not people that provide a legal product, legally

2) It is frankly wrong and immoral to accuse decent people of illegalities. I don't like it. See #1. Save your outrage for those that deserve it.

3) Logic alert, logic alert!! Why would one company shut down a refinery to help others?

4) Logic alert 2, logic alert 2!! Why, if they control all prices illegally and collude to force us to pay higher prices, would they stop at $3ish? Why not go straight to the highly taxed fuels of Europe? Why are we not paying $8 a gallon like our friends in England? Because the Oil companies have a heart? I don't believe that either.

5) Logic alert 3, logic alert 3!! If it is not the oil companies that are driving up fuel prices in highly fuel taxed nations (can't have it both ways, it is either taxation that makes their prices $8 or it is the evil oil companies . . .), then the blame is on those Governments there. If it is, where are the claims that the UK government is evil? Haven't they, in Z and Blo Haut logic, taken advantage of an unnatural need for fuel? Oh, that's OK because they spend it wisely on us . . . bleccchhh.

You guys are simply barking up unnecessary trees. There is enough proof in the fact that consumer prices around the globe come close to equaling each other's when you subtract tax and transportation and special blend costs. I simply fail to see why you guys don't get it.

Funny how (SBN is exempt from this), the same guys who think we should walk away from Iraq and allow Sunnis and Shiites to kill each other indiscriminately until there are none standing, are the same guys who think that Oil companies are the true evil in this world. They are also the same guys who blame the US for genocide in Rwanda. It is simply flippin' amazing

BTW, I expect no response to this as usual, which tells me I am either a total idiot, or it is no fun to respond to rational resistance to irrational fears . . .

Talk about spewing "sweet nothings." QC, all you did was post opinions and ask questions all in the name of "logic" as you see it, of course. I am not going to respond to your self-described "logic" piece by piece. I think it's logical to believe there is a possibility of collusion when so few control oil. While so few control oil, it is also next to impossible for "new" start-up companies to form which lends to collusion. Besides the money involved with start-up, BIG OIL would squash them like a bug.

When I hear the words, "BIG OIL," my thoughts go to the fact that so few control it and can do as they please with it, you know, much like a monopoly.....are those legal? When the words "BIG" are used to describe something, look at what is being discussed. It usually involves very few players, much like a monopoly, and a whole lot of money and profit. While I am not against profit by any means, profit without competition provides a problem for me. If they can turn 300% profit while having to be highly competitive in the oil market, so be it.

Crude on the market is much like gas in the local town. They are very similar in that it appears a prior price has been agreed upon. Drive down the local highway and observe gas prices. While there may be as much as 30 cents difference between exits only a couple miles apart, there is usually no more than a 1 cent difference between stations next to each other even though the gas is most likely coming from the same refinery. I will say it again, when so few control the market, there is a real possibility for collusion at all levels, whether it be OPEC, the refinery or the local stations. I struggle to believe "Big Oil" is above it with the present market, profits and lack of competition as it is. In my mind, this is what is logical.


Edit: as an after thought question. When pump prices drop, it takes 4 weeks for them to drop 20 cents. When pump prices go up, they go up 20 cents in an hour? Why?

 

[QC]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

BTW, I expect no response to this as usual . . .

 

[CJY]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

My thoughts exactly. QC, you have posted opinions and questions as have I. If I respond to your post piece by piece, what's the point?

For example, you said;

"4) Logic alert 2, logic alert 2!! Why, if they control all prices illegally and collude to force us to pay higher prices, would they stop at $3ish? Why not go straight to the highly taxed fuels of Europe?"


I believe the answer to be very simple. If you know you can steal a car everyday w/o getting caught, why would you steal 10 and bring all that attention which would assure you of being caught.

You also said;

"3) Logic alert, logic alert!! Why would one company shut down a refinery to help others?"


Answer; collusion!


I could go through and attack everything you said as I have above, but what is the point? Your view did not change, nor has mine. Therefore, I simply gave my view and called it logic as you have. What's the problem?






.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

1) Collusion is ILLEGAL. Get some "Big" government in there and rape em'. Heck even private citizens could rape em' with the right lawyer. "Big" trial lawyer. See John Edwards, he is one of the "biggest" of the "big" lawyers involved in "big" money, going after "big" companies, in a "big" way. This is, if there is a "big" profit in it for him. See pic's of his "big" home, on a "big" chunk of land, worth "big" bucks, in a "big" state, within a "big" country.

Again, collusion is ILLEGAL. And since "big" oil is so "big", keeping this a "big" secret would be a "big" task, if not next to impossible. Remember "big" oil, has "big" executives, with "big" ego's.

 

[QC]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

Therefore, I simply gave my view and called it logic as you have. What's the problem?

Well that's obvious . . . My logic is better than yours

I still want to know where this big meeting is . . . and who do they invite, and who don't they invite, and what do they have for lunch, and why don't the big ones that they forgot to invite get involved, and why do gasoline prices ever go down, and why do oil and natural gas, and propane and electricity and coal all have relatively similar pricing, and why do market traders trade it if it isn't fair, and why does PW2 think that oil companies will be forced out of this wonderfully colluded (I think I just coined that) market if they do in fact collude and have POTUS in their back pocket, and why can't anybody make a car that runs for a lower cost per mile, or a truck (well we do) but anyway . . . Why? Why? Why?????

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

QC, it's just too "big".

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

When you're slidin' into first and your pants begin to burst....

 

[CJY]

Re: Since we have not discussed it enough recently

Well that's obvious . . . My logic is better than yours

I still want to know where this big meeting is . . . and who do they invite, and who don't they invite, and what do they have for lunch, and why don't the big ones that they forgot to invite get involved, and why do gasoline prices ever go down, and why do oil and natural gas, and propane and electricity and coal all have relatively similar pricing, and why do market traders trade it if it isn't fair, and why does PW2 think that oil companies will be forced out of this wonderfully colluded (I think I just coined that) market if they do in fact collude and have POTUS in their back pocket, and why can't anybody make a car that runs for a lower cost per mile, or a truck (well we do) but anyway . . . Why? Why? Why?????

What, you think because it's not public knowledge it does not happen? I guess if I were doing something less than honest, I would not tell the neighbors either. BTW, I am not saying it is absolutely happening across the board. I am simply saying there are plenty of opportunities for it to go unchecked without competition. All I can go by right now is the lack of competition, the record profits and the cost at the pump. They simply appear to add up to wrong doing.

Please, if you respond to nothing else in my posts, answer this;

Edit: as an after thought question. When pump prices drop, it takes 4 weeks for them to drop 20 cents. When pump prices go up, they go up 20 cents in an hour? Why?



Pointer, yeah, collusion is illegal. What's your point? Speeding is illegal, as is robbery, distortion, murder. There are no consequences though, unless you are caught. My point, being illegal is not enough to keep some people from doing it anyway.

Why does OPEC exist? Probably not for an, almost across the board control of the market.




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