some good advice,some bad!

[orion208]

This forum is great for the knowledge of "seasoned "professionals.But what I have found personally is second and third opinions are essential for any novice boater.Dont take any first estimate."Someone on this board,I wont mention names because I dont "flame" said that I was in for anywhere from $3000.00 to $5000.00 because I had "waited to long" to repair a bellows crack,and that I had damaged the gimbal and u-joint as well as a whole host of parts.Well I just picked up the boat from the Volvo repair facility and was told there was NO damage to ANY parts and the cost to replace my drive-shaft bellows as well as a shift cable was actually $300.00 TOTAL not $3000.00 and upwards.All I can say is I am glad there are still honest Volvo repair facilities out there that are honest.If anyone in southern Ontario want the name just ask myself or fellow poster "jayzee".

 

[Bondo]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

the cost to replace my drive-shaft bellows as well as a shift cable was actually $300.00 TOTAL

You owe that guy a Christmas Card, At Least............... <br />Is this a Family owned marina ? Your Family ???? <br /><br />$300.00 doesn't even cover the cost of the Stiches,+ Band-Aides................

 

[JustMrWill]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

I have noticed that many posters tend to go with the worst case scenerios (which I always prefer..expect the worst but hope for the best). I have also noticed that some posters are very negative ("if you do that you might as well pour gas over your entire boat and set it on fire cause your a freaking idiot" attitude) which is not very helpful to us novices that are trying to learn. Most are here to help out...but always take anything said on here as an educated guess at best.<br /><br />Congratz on getting off easy. <br /><br />-JustMrWill

 

[hadvisor]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Hrm, interesting post. I take all advise from everybody and make my own decisions. If the info is coming from somebody who works with whatever the issue is on a daily basis, I take their opinions very seriously. Anybody who works with motors(cars, boats ect..) has seen a lot of different situations. They see a lot of things happen over and over again - that doesn't mean it always happens that way tho. Thank god that unnamed person on this board was wrong!! Who wants to pay all that cash to get things running again. Chances are they saw that scenerio a million times and that is what is usually needed...I have not been around boats very long but I do know one thing from working with cars for years - always get another opinion if you feel uncomfortable. Most places will not charge for that. Always check out the marina/dealer before doing anything - get opinions. Chances are you will hear the negative first but its better than nothing... I hate to rant and Im not trying to be a **** but come on, nobody can make a for sure diagnosis online without the boat right in front of them. What they can offer is information they have seen in the past. <br />If I am out of line because of some conversation I missed then oops, sorry to be so damn negative...I dont like posting on boards because chances are, somebody else has had the same problem. The glory of the search button.<br />Go Packers

 

[JasonB]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Many problems are hard to diagnose accurately over a forum. With my luck, usually I get caught with a "worst case scenario/bill" for some things, but you are correct, the different opinions and experiences are what makes this board great, but try not to fault those who discuss worst case, sometimes folks just need to be aware that a leak that would cost $300 to fix, if left alone "until I get time" can develop into a $3000 bill. Even im my non boating related profession (IT), I've seen many times that someone put off a minor repair or ignored a minor error until it cost the huge bucks and other things.<br /><br />Remember the old acronym "B.O.A.T - break out another thousand, or as I have found after my major overhaul, break out another $20, and another, and another, and another, .... you get my point on the $20's <br /><br />Some here are Pro's some are new boaters, most are in between. On the same thought, some are optimists, some are pessimists. I tend to be a pessimistic optimist <br /><br />BTW: not sure how that job is done on a Volvo, but I would definetly agree with Bondo. After doing that job on my Mercruiser last year, i almost wish I could have paid someone $300 to do it.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

starbaby, I'm glad your repair bill was that low, you were lucky - period. <br /><br />Personally I feel that the 'unnamed person' is probably the most qualified person when it comes to VP to ever grace these forums.<br /><br />Your post is grossly unfair, he gave you a broad estimate based on his substancial experience and as I said - you were lucky.<br /><br />Thats my 2 cents anyway.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

To whom it may concern: Anyone who offers advice on this forum is trying to help fellow boaters. For some of us, we have most likely spent several hours that same day working on boats and getting paid well for it. What we do on here is try to help people we have never met, diagnose a boat we have never seen, and listen to descriptions that may or may not be accurate, and try to offer solutions, for nothing more than the occaisonal thank you. A boat, besides being a personal "play toy" is something that people put their family and their neighbors family in for a day of fun. When something goes wrong, it can and has been deadly, we take this very seriously. Just like a doctor we have to look at ALL of the possibilities, and err on the side of safety, and making sure that repair suggestions are all inclusive. I would rather go to the emergency room and find out it was nothing serious, than be told to take an aspirin and stay home....and die.<br />I have "blown" a few diagnoses on here, and usually there is someone more familiar with that particular problem that posts right after me with a different viewpoint....thank God.<br />We are all, trying to help. If you went to the repair shop expecting a $3000.00 bill, and recieved a $300.00 bill, consider yourself lucky, but please, don't blast on the people that gave advice, based on your description over a computer.The next time you're sick, ask your doctor to help you over the phone, or better yet....send him an email.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

star baby<br /> if in fact you have a 280 0r a 290 outdrive it would mean you have the swedish version. all of the swedish transom shields do not have a replacable gimbal bearing like the cobra or the mercrusier or the SX type volvo stuff. so if you have the volvo with a gimbal bearing in the transome shield you either have a cobra drive or a much newer(95) up SX drive. Volvo did not manufacture anything with a gimbal bearing in the shield before 95-96 model run of the JV SX drive. so I am thinking you miss-identified the drive on your post. if you actually had a 280-290 style drive and the water leaked in enough to fill the gimbal/bellhousing area the 3000 dollar estimate is in line and in some cases conservative.<br /> if you have a cobra or an sx then its a one hour op to change the gimbal bearing and a couple more to change the yoke and u-joints.<br /> if your gimbal bearing has a grease fitting on the transom shield there is no way it is what you described in you water in the bilge post.<br /> the major problem is the yoke will rust and next year the seal will leak and you wont realize the upper case oil is now in the bellows and not in the upper case until the case self destructs.<br /> I did one last week that had the same repair last year. the bellows was replaced but not the yoke or the ujoints. he had to buy a complete upper for a 97 SX and a dissasemble and reseal of the lower and a shaft coupler, all due to a rusted yoke seal that should have been corrected when the bellows was done.<br /> what would have cost him 600 last year cost just over 4000 this year.<br /> DonS is a pro like me, I have more tech schools than a lot of people have time in a graduate degree. I do this every day and have for almost 30 years. I live on some property my great grandfather bought in 1885 so all around here know my number and where i live. if I do shoddy work all know it soon. so I learned very early to do it once do it right and cost is not my problem.so try not to flame us to badly <br /> I am thinking someone mis-identified the drive

 

[Don S]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

At this point it does't matter which drive he has. I know of several dealers in other towns that if there was water in the bellows would only change the bellows and anything else the customer was complaining about, and let the next problem come up down the line (aka next spring)<br />I know who star baby is crying about with the 3 to 5K estimates, it's me. And in my opinion, he isn't done with his problem yet, matter of fact, he's just beginning and I for one would like to know what happens next year. But I doubt it will ever be known.<br />So, for some reading on the posts that starbaby is refering to, here are the links to those threads.<br /><br /> May 3rd Post <br /><br /> Sept. 11th Post

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Don, if it isn't obvious, all of the posts by starbaby, are from someone who likes to blame everyone else but themselves, for what happens. Look at their other posts today, they are so worried that someone has taken advantage of them, about their fuel filter/water seperating filter...it makes me sick. Be very glad this is not one of your customers. These are the people that make our lives miserable.<br /><br />Don, I know we have had different opinions on a few subjects, guess what, both of our opinions have been posted....as were other opinions.....the person asking the question can look at all of them and make a choice. There are some subjects that it was clear.....you new the answer and I didn't.....I've been working on engines for 25 years and boats for 10 years....I have learned a thing or two from you....THANK YOU ! As for Starbaby, I HOPE you got lucky, if not, I hope you are safe when your drive locks up......PLEASE make sure you have a working vhf and a cell phone on board, as well as an anchor, flares, life jackets, etc. Don....don't give up...we need you here.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

I am with ya don.<br /> I see it all the time. change just the bellows and take the money then when it all falls apart the customer is mad cause he just had it fixed. I consider my job to not only fix the immediate problem but find the cause and correct future problems.<br />we have several shady mobile marine techs in this area. they create a lot of work for me and cause a lot of grief. I had a volvo sx that they bought the package from an OEM distributer on the internet and installed the entire drive package themselves. mind you they had priced it at one of the marina's i work for but it was to much. they bought the internet package for about 3000 less than what we would have charged. the draw back is apperantly no one ever tightend the fwd bellows clamp and water got in and it was run till it failed. we wont work on it. we told him to take it back to the selling dealer for warrenty work. now he is crying to volvo. volvo called us and we said we would work on it if we got so slack we had nothing else to do.<br /> checking the clamps is a part of pre-delivery inspection and the backyarders did not do it. in my area there are 7 or 8 dealers that sell motors out the back door for less than we can buy them from the factory. almost every one comes in for warrenty work due to impropper rigging and initial set up. if it was a rigging or PDI problem I always advise the manufacture of what I found and tell them if I think its a warrenty issue or a neglect issue. I wont tell them its a defect in the product if I see it was a defect in the installation.<br /> so it comes down to pay your money and take your chances but in my line of work there is no such thing as a "good deal".<br /> but I will stand by my post. either star baby does not know what drive he has or he will face a bell housing bearing failure in the future.<br /> waterone1<br /> I dont complain much about customer neglect. it keeps me in a nice income bracket

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

rodbolt...I like money as much as the next guy, but for gods sake, if the customer notices their bilge pump is running for 1/2 hour per day let us know about it.....don't just say it needs to be winterized......we will be happy to check it in the water to find the air conditioning thru hull is leaking!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

waterone1<br /> thats part of my winterizing. most the time I will fix it, note it, and most my customers dont complain. thats the nice thing about being self employed. customers that complain cause I found and repaired/replaced a broken swicth ,blower or pump are not customers any longer. ya either keep the thing maintained or ya takes on down da road <br /> I have no time to call a customer for 10 wire ties and a few connectors or pumps. at 75 dollars an hour if I stop to call its costly. and yes if I climb out and call I am still on the time clock.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Star Baby, be kind and gracious to those offering their advice and have taken the time to answer your post. Take what you want from the help being offered and leave the stuff you feel isn't appropriate. Don't condemn someone for trying to help.<br /><br />In the end, without seeing the boat, much of this is an educated guess. No one really knows how much water exposure the parts received. There's always a best and worst case scenario. Star Baby may just have gotten off easy and maybe there is more to come...or maybe not.<br /><br />At least Star Baby has been warned.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Just one question for Star Baby ... If you had been led to believe the job would cost no more than $300, how would you have felt if the bill came to $3000? Jeez, I'd be hopping up and down for JOY if a job I expected to cost $3000 cost me one tenth of that! I guess there are some people that will complain if the weather forcast calls for cold rain and got warm sunshine instead. Or if a Cancer diagnosis turned out to be one big nasty juicy zit. Sheesh!

 

[tommays]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Star<br /><br />thank you for reminding me why i stoped fixing boats and switched to land based machines in 1975 every time i have doughts something like this puts a smile on my face that i made the right call<br /><br />land or sea i have not seen any bearing live after a long dose of water<br /><br />tommays

 

[deputydawg]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

I think that some here are extremists with their opinion of problems posted. But there is a lot of knowledge gathered here to pull from. Keep in mind though that this is just for advice. The messages here are posted to help repair problems, but are based on what is posted. If someone would post a flooding problem in a carb they will get advice ranging from spray gummout in the carb to buy a new carb. The best approach is to take all advice in stride, go through the posts and find what fits best. I know from working in an automotive shop that was a dalership compared to working with a general mechanic, the dealerships are trained different. They are trained that is 1 part is broken, you MUST replace 20 others to make it right. I hated that idea of hangin parts just because it was a dealership. I have to say that from what I have read here when the bellows are bad, this leads to many other problems. I suppose if the bellows leak was found immediately you might get lucky enough not to have a lot of damage. I can say for myself that I don't know a lot about drives. I have learned a lot here, and am still learning. I do however know about engines and carbs. When I post replies I go overboard on information, but I try to post ALL angles of repair and every possibility.<br />There is probably over 100 years of experience and knowledge here to draw from. I am glad your problem turned out to be cheap and simple. I hope the mechanic was right.

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Don,<br /><br />Your advice to my posts has been invaluable. I for one respect and welcome your opinion and without it I would not have learnt as much as I have this year. Finding a good Volvo Tech is hard please keep posting.<br /><br />StarBaby,<br /><br />People cant be right 100% of the time and if they are wrong they sure dont need a new topic to ram that back down are throat. Chill out, put the $2700 to one side for the next problem!

 

[hoot]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

i have wondered when this topic might come up and here it is! the forum should be taken for what it is, a place for people to give information and advise to others on boating based on past experiences. we don't have to follow the advice given and people range from the professional mechanic who does a through job to the recreational boater that wants to replace marine parts with auto parts to save $. there are boaters in here that have been on boats all their life to first timers. not all the info given resolves the problem, but gives the owner a place to start. the posters have different personalities and approaches. some are painfully direct, some are humorous, and some just need educating, but the knowledge here is unmatched. there should be (maybe there is) a legal disclaimer that will prevent someone from being sued if a boat sinks or burns, or the owner gets hurt following the suggestion of a poster. we all should have personal responsibility and use common sense when it comes to these matters.

 

[kinsmen]

Re: some good advice,some bad!

Just wanted to add my 2cents, I knew nothing about o/b until I found this forum. It has made a huge difference in my understanding of engine and outdrive preventative maintenance and repair.<br />However, sometimes I feel overwhelmed because of my lack of true hands on experience. When it comes to the postings I read, it makes me want to sell my boat before all hell breaks loose and costs me my guts and at other times I tell myself that is why we have paddles. Nothing I have found can compare to this forum and you mentors keep it coming for everyone's benefit.