Some people just blow smoke!

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,795
I seldom visit this site but am compelled to do so today. I wanted to grease my trailer hubs and I liked the grease I used previously which of a peculiar color and made specifically for marine trailer bearings...had a nice stickiness about it that you couldn't hardly wash off your hands, much less your bearings...... was in a gun supplied with my boat when I bought it. I have since used the grease elsewhere and looking for replacement.

So I get on www and ask the first question: Why do people say that you can't mix greases of different types? Checked several sites and really didn't get any plausible answer. Main content was that they wouldn't/may not, mix well with because of (possibly) different additives.

Okaye, lets explore this . Say I have a hub with pink grease and add grease of a different type that is chartreuse. The pink is in first and upon adding the other as I rotate the spindle, I come up with a mixture that looks like Hershey's chocolate just being stirred into a glass of milk!!!!!! I have the hub packed but the greases don't mix, but both greases find their way between the revolving and stationary steel surfaces and lubricate as they do.......did I miss something?

Situation #2: I check out a site that is for high speed offshore boats with 1000 hp engines, 150 mph and all that, triple axle trailers and all. Get the usual garden variety of what people think is the "only thing to use". Most of the respondents swear by Mystic JT-6 and how it is a lower temp grease that lubricates when the axles are cold whereas the high temp greases don't melt and don't lubricate.......scuse me?????

Common sense would tell one that if, for some reason, the grease would separate itself from the metal part to which it so admirably attached itself "when hot" if you will, and now the cold temp causes it to quit lubricating......geez, let's see, steel on steel, carrying a load rotating at reasonable to moderately high speed.....friction-heat-elevated temperature-where's the high temp grease to stay put and not run out at these higher temps???? Hello! Grease melts, flows over the points of friction, bearings cool down......what can I say.

I used Mystic JT-6 for years (purchased from Gebo's Farm and Ranch store locally) for everything on the farm. I bought it because it is a high temp, waterproof, high pressure grease......never had a bearing nor bushing fail, nor any other moving part greased with high temp (red) grease of any origin.

Since my grease guns are packed with high temp grease, I may just add it to my Bearing Buddies and dare them to fail.

Advice here and elsewhere is worth just what you pay for it. UGH! That's why, when I answer someone's post, I authenticate my reply as to whim, experience, or referenced fact and supply the reference.....eliminates confusion like I have just been subjected to.

Off the soap box....I think.

Mark
 

oldjeep

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
6,455
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Why would you want to mix grease anyways? If you used up the old stuff, its probabally time for a repack anyways.
 

Triton II

Commander
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,479
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

I'm hearing you Texasmark. I've never checked what was in there before, and just use HT bearing grease (red) in my bearing buddies and haven't had a failure in 20 years of towing - sometimes a 1000 miles round trip with just a check and if necessary a quick top before setting off. Seems to work for me...

TII
 

j_martin

Admiral
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
7,474
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Anybody here ready to help TM when he's broke down on the road with dusty dry wheel bearings because he hasn't decided what grease to buy?

Just kiddin'

Any grease is better than no grease. Unless you're doing wheel bearings on a jet fighter or something, just use what you have or can get.

I use cheep swilmart marine grease on everything around the boat, including wheel bearings.

Lubricant compatibility, especially greases, can be a real complicated item, and the results of mixing things can be pretty surprising.

I mix a tackifier (like STP) with used hydraulic or clean motor oil (maybe been used in a gearcase) to make chainsaw bar oil. Once I got a whole drum of used synthetic screw compressor oil that seemed to be very similar to the hydraulic oil I'd been using. When I mixed in the tackifier, I got a hard plastic disk floating on top of the oil banging on the mixing container.

An incompatibility reaction like that in a wheel bearing could have some expensive consequences.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,795
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Why would you want to mix grease anyways? If you used up the old stuff, its probabally time for a repack anyways.

Past experience taught me a lesson about disturbing something that didn't need it. On one occasion, I repacked in trying to get the bearing buddies to load up correctly, you know, put in a little grease, wait for the disc to bottom out et cetera, I blew an inner seal.

On another occasion, (different trailer) I was driving down the highway and had been checking the rig in my rear view/side mirrors.....on one check, I noticed that the BB was gone on the drivers side and in pulling over noticed that I had grease slung all over the hub, wheel, tire and everything else. Had to turn around and go home. Seems the process of getting the buddy out damaged it's ability to remain in the hub just as they say can happen.

In short, I don't mess with them if I don't have to. I periodically jack up the trailer and roll the wheel to ensure that the bearings are intact and add grease as necessary to keep the disc where slight pressure with your finger can make it move move....just like they recommend. I don't fish salt water and upon launching and loading, stop the trailer just before the hub touches it to allow the water to cool the wheel/axle prior to submerging the hub.

I have added grease to existing grease in bearings on farm equipment over the last 30+ years and never lost a bearing.

Mark
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,458
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

NLGI definition of incompatibility: Two lubrication greases show incompatibility when a mixture of the products show physical properties or service performance which are markedly inferior to those of either of the greases before mixing. Fluid separation is the first sign of incompatibility.

Here is what two of the top bearing manufacuteres have to say on the subject.

Based on SKF?s years of experience performing root cause analysis of failed bearings, it can be said that half of all bearing failures in industrial applications can be attributed to poor or inadequate lubrication conditions caused by the improper selection of the basic grease type for the operating conditions, improper relubrication intervals, mixing incompatible greases,liquid or solid contamination, or overgreasing.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/751/lubrication-bearings-rolling

It is a mystery why engineers don?t foresee more problems when greases are mixed either deliberately or accidentally. The answer is that even a soupy mix of incompatible greases may work for a while when the bearings are in good shape, if shock loading isn?t too severe, the seals are adequate, and demands are not extreme.

http://www.latestproducts.info/techarchive/articles/2009/06/mixing-greases-can-trigger-problems/
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,795
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

The label on the grease I use says specifically not to mix different types of grease:

http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/label/lbSL3120.pdf

Of course what do they know! Probably blowing smoke trying to get more of their product put in the hubs.

Yessssss. I did have a separate grease gun solely devoted to trailer hubs till I ran out of grease in the other 3 guns and emptied this one. Had red hi temp with the fixed tube applicator, same grease in another with 2 ea 18" flex lines for the really hard to get to applications, the Moly for the scraping implement mounts, cutter bars and the like, then the marine trailer grease.

Mark
 

JimS123

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
8,288
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Years ago I had 2 different brands of grease in 2 tubes. Not enough of either to do the job, but together just right. Rather than pack 2 wheels with each, I mixed them in a bowl. The first trip was about 50 miles on back roads (like 35 mph) and when i got to the lake I saw that all 4 wheels were literally leaking oil out of the rear seals. When I repacked them there was nothing left in the hubs. All turned to liquid.

I went to the local petroleum store (they sell only oil and grease) and the guy literally laughed outloud. He said that 90% of the greases are compatible, but some of the surfactants used by different companies are not. My luck - I got the 2 that weren't.

Go ahead and mix at your own risk. I only have to learn my lesson once!


PS - after the ordeal I looked at what was left in the sealed butter dish in my garage. When I mixed them it was a thick "grease". After only a few days it was "water" like liquid.
 

smokeonthewater

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
9,838
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

wait a minute.... there will be NO "blowing smoke" here without my express permission................................
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,795
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Well, I gotta eat some Crow here. You'all have your big laugh at my expense.....Grin.

I went to the farm store where I buy my Mystic red, and lo and behold is a green/white 12 tube case. In there is the grease that the folks that I aforementioned apparently use as it is a medium temp, tacky, water resistant, lithium base, made for slower revolving surfaces..........in short; perfect for boat trailer wheel bearings.

Also, on that trip to town, I went looking for some trailer wb grease and at WW I found their house brand of trailer bearing grease and upon reading the label on the back I was very impressed with it's intended application and capabilities and bought some....before I went to the farm store so I didn't need to open the packet and read the application on the green case. Obviously some petroleum packager packs WW grease and it very well may have been Mystic or someone packing Mystic products.

Other thing I found out about Mystic, Citgo, Cates Oil in Oklahoma, and the red I bought packaged by a company in Houston, TX. were all packagers/sellers of the Mystic product and that JT-6 apparently is the spec for greases having numerous intended applications, whereas their spec for heavy oils, fluids, or internal combustion oils carry different JT numbers................

I also went to the Mystic lubes www and read up on the green case (didn't open it and look at the tube nor contents) and my usual red case.

On mixing greases, I hang my guns on the wall in my shop and they drip red liquid and there is nothing in there, nor ever has been nothing but high temp (red) lithium NLGI 2 grease. So, if the oil wants to separate from the soap then I guess it does. Never had it happen on a bearing of any kind, in any service however.

Having pondered the situation, it seems possible/probable that that the grease in the gun, being under constant compression caused by the spring in the gun that keeps the disc pushing grease to the pump, some oil gets squeezed out of the soap and leaks out the bottom hole where the ram rod exits. That same constant spring pressure also causes grease to migrate around the disc and lodge between the disc and lower housing so that when you go to replace the tube, first of all you can't get the ram rod to lock out and secondly, the new tube won't insert completely.

Soooo, having nothing to do that day, I cleaned up the messes and decided to lock my rod in the extended position, relieving the pressure on the grease, and when I am ready to use the gun I will engage while using. Probably should have done that a long time ago.

On mixing greases while I was on the subject, I went through my assortment and having Moly, lithium, and Lubriplate greases, it makes sense that you could have some compatibility problems mixing different types.....course the lubrication industry sells lubes to be used in everything and obviously there are different requirements for different applications.

Nuf of my ramblings.

Mark
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,795
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Bump!

Don't want this to get lost in the chaff. Want you guys that like to jump on me to have your chance. Big Grin.

Mark
 

old boat 54

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
80
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

Well, I gotta eat some Crow here. You'all have your big laugh at my expense.....Grin.

I went to the farm store where I buy my Mystic red, and lo and behold is a green/white 12 tube case. In there is the grease that the folks that I aforementioned apparently use as it is a medium temp, tacky, water resistant, lithium base, made for slower revolving surfaces..........in short; perfect for boat trailer wheel bearings.

Also, on that trip to town, I went looking for some trailer wb grease and at WW I found their house brand of trailer bearing grease and upon reading the label on the back I was very impressed with it's intended application and capabilities and bought some....before I went to the farm store so I didn't need to open the packet and read the application on the green case. Obviously some petroleum packager packs WW grease and it very well may have been Mystic or someone packing Mystic products.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also bought the " marine" grease from Wally world. It was by super tech, if I remember.
I had purchased the three pack of small tubes for the "road tripp" grease gun, When I opened a new pack, I was suprised to see a different color. The one I always got was blue in color. I wondered if it was mystik
also. The label was the same on the front of the tube. However, after looking at it closer, when you read the back, it states the color, in fine print.
There is a blue, amber, and brown. The label is the same "Marine grease". At first I thought they packaged it incorrectly.
There are three pack tubes with standard grease, and also variety packs. You have to look carefully at info on the back. I dont know why they do this, as it adds to confusion, as if you picked up the wrong tube.
The other issue with this grease was amount of grease in tube varied a lot. some tubes filled to top, and
others 2/3 rd filled. All had foil seal. Just thought I mentioned to save some hastle for others.
 

reelmess

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
48
Re: Some people just blow smoke!

I've been using the same black molybdenum grease on my trailers that I've used in my truck for years, never an issue. I also carry a grease gun and give my wheel bearings a shot before the ride home each time. None of my trailers have brakes, so if a little extra grease slobbers out the seals, so be it, no harm done.
I bought a barrel of wheel bearing grease years ago that will most likely be a lifetime supply.
I've pulled a few hubs off after 10 years of use and everything looks as good as the day I put it together years ago.

I agree, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 

artherm

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 23, 2004
Messages
86
Mystk JT-6

Mystk JT-6

I am a long time boater, fifty years and counting. I have changed many wheel bearings. As they wear, they will become loose. They will also pit on the rollers and outer race. I would repack annually, and replace bearings as necessary. I have contributed this wear to leaking grease seals, allowing water to enter, and to the quality of the grease. After I started using Mystik Jt-6, many years ago, these problems just went away. I now use bearing buddies. I don't even tear down the bearings annually as I have done in the past. A good test of the quality, is as posted, rub some of these grease on your hands and see how easily if washes off. It just doesn't. I won't use anything else. Just this week, I bought two tubes on sale for $5.00 from our local Farm and Home Supply. I also use their 80-90W gear oil in all four of my Evinrudes. I have been so impressed with their products, that several years ago, I wrote Cato Oil Co. a letter complimenting their products. One day, I found a package on our front step. They sent me a sample of their other products, as well as a thank you letter. I know this is off subject from mixing greases, but I just had to comment.
 

Silverbullet555

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
621
Re: Mystk JT-6

Re: Mystk JT-6

Greases can be a paid. I remember when I first got my first boat the boat place recommended the wrong grease for roller bearings.

Anyway, after doing plenty of research I settled for Evinrude EP Wheel bearing grease. It is speced for the gimbal and it is good for bearings too.

The only thing I don't like about it is that it does like to weep a little bit of the oil from the grease gun. Doesn't do it in the bearings, but in the gun it does. Now that I think about it, when I added some grease to the bearings the other day, the grease was less red and more pink. Wondering if I should pull that tube out.

As previously mentioned, don't mix bases, but other than that, have fun.
 
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