some problems with an 86 Force...

smatt79

Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
11
I have an 86 125 hp force outboard. The motor seems to suddenly smoke a lot, which it did not before. The alarm also comes on for a split second while running at slow speeds, and there is some slight hesitation. I recently put $500 into the lower unit due to a troublesome water pump/impeller, and seem to have good water flow in the engine. I ran it out of gas last week and it seems like thats when the problems started. I mix my gas using a mixing bottle and am sure the oil/fuel ratio is correct. After this started happening, I checked compression (around 120 on all 4 cylinders, which seems pretty good to me) and replaced the plugs. I also replaced all of the fuel lines and pump due to a frequent stall on start-up(got the idea from this site), not to mention the fact that they were 20 years old. I did this after the problem with the smoke, hoping it was somehow connected. Still smokes, any ideas?
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

The alarm concerns me, indicates overheating. The smoke you see may be steam !!

Have you replaced the thermostat?

Check for spark on all 4 plugs.

Clean the screens on the fuel recirculation system.

I would get a can of Seafoam and put it in the fuel.
Then get a can of Seafoam Deep Creep and decarb the motor.
Click this link to learn about decarbing a motor.
http://www.iboats.com/bbboard/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=36;gtid=1035563
 

smatt79

Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
11
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

I dont mean to sound like an idiot, but can you tell me where to look for the thermostat? Nothing on the engine jumped out at me as a thermostat housing. I looked through the book and couldnt find it either. Thanks!
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

No problem.

On the back of the engine, just above the top spark plug, small cover with 3 or 4 screws.

Numbers 87-90 (on the left) in the photo below.

18.png
 

smatt79

Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
11
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

OK, after having to take an extended break from this project, and just got back to it this morning. The housing bolts were near impossible to remove, hence why it was more than a 20 minute project. The thermostat is definately bad just by looking at it, though I'm not sure if it is the cause of the problem. Can you direct me to where to find a replacement? Would napa carry this sort of thing?

Also, can I run the engine without the thermostat in the meantime??
 

smatt79

Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
11
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

oh, and I meant to say thanks so much for your help thus far!!
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

You may find a thermostat right here on iboats.18-3559.
Would be nice to support them for their great support of these forums.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

Yes, Iboats has them in the marine store. But if you don't want to deal with UPS delivery, Napa carries them too. They may not stock them, but will have them in a day or two.
Thermostat 18-3559

Yes you can run without the thermostat on a temporary basis.


When you ran out of gas, you may have sucked dirt out of the sediment bowl into the carb. Worth checking out if the thermostat doesn't do the fix.
 

smatt79

Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
11
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

OK, Yesterday was devoted to the boat. The thermostat was beyond crap, cruddy and even broken. I'm just running without a thermostat until I sit down today and order one. I dont know if the old one worked, but by the looks of it I doubt it.

I first ran through about half a can of carb cleaner, then used the seafoam deep creep through the carbs, and into the cylinders as per the instructions. You said use liberally, I used the whole can. I also added two cans of the gas treatment to about 20 gallons of gas.

What a mess! the neighbors enjoyed the smoke while running the carb cleaner and the deep creep through the carbs. I let it sit about two hours, and took it to the lake. I got some looks at the launch with the cloud of smoke, but after running about 10 minutes there was no smoke (or steam, whichever was the root of the problem) to be seen, and the engine was running better than it ever has for me. There was also no alarm, not even for a split second, like it was coming on before.

Thanks so much for your help. My final question is; is this something I should do often, like once or twice per season? Should I do it again in a week or so to make sure its thoroughly cleaned out? Let me know the recommendations, and thanks so much for all your help with this.

p.s. anyone else changing an original force thermostat; beware of the screws holding the housing on! Flood them with pb blaster with the engine up so it can really work in, then try to move them a half turn or so and do it again and again and again. It was a multi day process for me to get them out! Get yourself two things, a hand impact driver and a pair of vice grips. It's obviously easier to get them with the screw driver if you can, but as a last resort you can use the vice grips, because the screws are accessible. Replace them with hex heads (though you'll have to use a wrench, not enough clearance for a socket) and use anti-seize to put it back together!
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

Glad things worked for you.

But be careful with regular carb cleaner, it doesn't have any oil in it and can cause damage to the internal parts of the engine, as it strips away the existing lubrication.
You should be ok, as you followed up with the Deep Creep and ran the engine long enough to re-lubricate.

Yes, a good idea to do it once a year. Manufacturer recommends a decarb every 50-80 hours, or once a year.

And great tips on the thermostat cover screws. That will help the next guy that reads it.
 

1fullforce

Seaman
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
51
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

hi guys, my 1987 85 hp force is overheating also , i managed to take the 4 bolts from the thermostat the 2 top bolts were not hard to take off but the 2 bottoms were a different story, i applied pb blaster to the bolts last night and left them overnite, this evening i sprayed more lubricating oil, softly tap the end of the bolt with a hammer and chisel, used a heat gun , started to loosen each bolt ***slowly***shoot some more lubricant use some heat , thighten the bolts, wait a couple of minutes, loosen them up again and repeat the same process until you get them off. i was lucky all 4 bolts came out of there. the heat gun and tapping help a whole lot. i cleaned the thread on the bolts and the thermo housing on the block and are ready to be install back with a new thermostat. i am going to napa to order me a new thermo tomorrow. this evening i boiled some water and put the old thermosat in it for about 3 to 4 minutes , thermostat never did opened , is this how u check for a bad thermo?
thenks in advance
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: some problems with an 86 Force...

It may sound counter-intuitive but follow my reasoning here:

The water pump impeller has fins that bend backward. The impeller is offset in the housing. Because of this, the impeller acts like a positive displacement pump.

However: at higher speeds the vanes no longer contact the pump housing walls and the pump acts like a centrifugal pump. Because of this, if the vanes are worn to a certain degree it is possible for the pump to not deliver enough cooling water at low speed and yet give sufficient water at higher speeds.

SO; Even though you have had the pump impeller replaced, double check it.
 
Top