Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

Electricity

Recruit
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
5
Ok, so as a few of you may know, I'm in the process of restoring a 19' sea ray (year unknown). I've determined that I'm going to have to replace all 4 stringers, the deck, and build up the transom to convert from i/o to out board. I believe I understand the concept of what has to be done, just not what is required to do it.
Obviously no one is going to be able to say 'you need x amount of hardener, y resin, etc." So I'm hoping someone is able to tell me the aproximate amount of hardener, resin, and glass mat I should get.
Also, what brand/type should I be looking for?
And to apply the resin, should I just use regular paint brushes and rollers, or are there specific resin rollers? Aaaand lastly (for now, heh) what kind of place should I go to get these types of things, I'm guessing the Home Depot is probably not the best place to go?
Thanks for your consideration,
-sam
 

redfury

Commander
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,657
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

Well, you could do some reading and searching here and get the basics, but I'll try to get you started the best I can and let others chime in as needed.

If you are going to be doing 4 stringers, transom and deck, you are looking at a lot of supplies. It's not a matter of how much to buy, it's a matter of how much to buy at one time. If you are new to all of this, start off with a gallon of resin and some CSM. You are going to have to tab in the stringers or cover the transom wood. Either way, the first gallon will give you a good idea whether you are/feel cut out for the work or not. It's your experimenting gallon...we all need to learn how the stuff works before committing to a lot of glass work....it'll build your confidence to tackle the larger job.

So, you get your gallon and a couple of yards of CSM and get the first layer on the transom and are going to move on from there. The next phase is, how much time are you allotting yourself per session, and what kind of environment are you working in.

As far as the type of Fiberglass you want to use for the boat, there are different types you can use depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Personally, I'm using 10" wide strips of 1708 Biax for my stringers with a strip of CSM on the tops to cap them. others have used continuous blankets of roving. It just depends on how you are building them. Most seem to use 1708 on the transom after sealing the wood with resin.

Of course, this is all if you go with Polyester resin vs Epoxy. Epoxy resins are far more expnsive and don't require the use of CSM. I'll let the epoxy guys deal with those questions if you have them.
 

drewpster

Commander
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
2,059
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

For possible resin and supplies first try your local phone book. If you live near a large body of water it is possible you have a boat glass repair shop in your area. It is a great resource to make friends with them and see if they are willing to sell supplies to you or even help out with advice. Not all shops are this accommodating so also look for any other type of fiberglass fab/ supply company in the area. Based on my own experience it is best to take boat repair advice from boat repair people as opposed to fiberglass fabrication people. We have a fiberglass shop here in town that has been building baptismal tubs for churches for 30 years. A great guy that sells supplies too. But he knows nothing about fixing boats. Boats are a specialized area.
And so are resins. Generally speaking you do not want to go to a chain marine kind of place to buy fiberglass supplies. They carry them in the stores for people doing smaller repairs. So the prices are a little inflated. It is cheaper to buy online and pay the hazmat fees to ship the resin then to buy it at a chain marine store.
 

bigredinohio

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
604
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

Really great advice already given and I will only add that Mertons is located in MA. which is a pretty good place. Ask for Joe and he will take the time to talk to you regarding your fiberglass needs. Another place is US Composites which has the best prices IMO. Between the two, you should be set with your glassing supplies and you can pick up latex gloves and a respirator at HD or Lowes.

I'll warn you to try and use poly resin if possible since it's probably healthier and cheaper but I am using epoxy. It is real easy to measure...2 parts resin to 1 part hardener and pretty simple to use for a beginner. The biggest challenges that I have using it is CSM doesn't want to wet out. You do have to sand after it's dried for additional layers of glassing for better bonding. Once you use epoxy, you can not use poly as it will not bond to epoxy.

The best thing to do is read the threads available and find one or two that jump out at you that you find easy to follow with what they are doing and the materials being used.
 

Electricity

Recruit
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
5
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

Thanks a lot for your time guys, its greatly apreciated. I'm gonna try and get in contact with a local fiberglass boat repair company today and see what they have to say. It'l be a week or so yet befor I have the money together to actually be able to afford the supplys, but I'll keep everyone informed aas to how things go.


Cheers,
-E
 

redfury

Commander
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,657
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

Thanks a lot for your time guys, its greatly apreciated. I'm gonna try and get in contact with a local fiberglass boat repair company today and see what they have to say. It'll be a week or so yet before I have the money together to actually be able to afford the supply's, but I'll keep everyone informed as to how things go.


Cheers,
-E

You sound like you are in the same "boat" as a lot of us incrementalists here...building $30,000 boats $30 at a time :D. If you are going to build in small stages as funds allow, make sure that the only thing you over buy is fiberglass material and chip brushes. You can run out of resin and get more, but if you run out of fiberglass when you have more resin, that's just a bad place to be on a cost/unit average.
 

redfury

Commander
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,657
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

You can use it all you want. I feel flattered when someone uses something I write, it means someone actually read it :D
 

Scrudgy

Recruit
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
2
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

Ok, so as a few of you may know, I'm in the process of restoring a 19' sea ray (year unknown). I've determined that I'm going to have to replace all 4 stringers, the deck, and build up the transom to convert from i/o to out board. I believe I understand the concept of what has to be done, just not what is required to do it.
Obviously no one is going to be able to say 'you need x amount of hardener, y resin, etc." So I'm hoping someone is able to tell me the aproximate amount of hardener, resin, and glass mat I should get.
Also, what brand/type should I be looking for?
And to apply the resin, should I just use regular paint brushes and rollers, or are there specific resin rollers? Aaaand lastly (for now, heh) what kind of place should I go to get these types of things, I'm guessing the Home Depot is probably not the best place to go?
Thanks for your consideration,
-sam

Rollers (for saturating the chopped strand mat with resin) should be the cheapest you can find (but not foam ones as these fall apart easily). Consider them disposable after each session as the effort of cleaning them is not worth the cost.

Rollers (for rolling air pockets and driving the resin through the CSM) should be an aluminium paddle type - best to get a small one for small areas like your stringers, and a large one for the deck.

Brushes (for pushing the resin and CSM into corners etc should be available from the resin/csm supplier in bulk packs of a dozen (again, not worth the effort to clean if they are cheap enough.

Type / Brand - Well Epoxy resins cost a lot, and if you are doing a transom, stringers, deck and other bits and pieces - you will need a lot. Polyester resins are much cheaper, and here in the UK we get what is called General Purpose polyester resin approved for marine use.

I have used 50 litres of the stuff so far, but then I have glassed the entire internal hull, new transom, new stringers, new keel (also used polyester resin for this with a filler powder) new bulkhead and still haven't done my deck yet.

Polyester resin with a filler powder is great for fixing the stringers and transom into place prior to glassing with CSM.

Resin to catalyst mix can depend on what you want to do. Note, below refers to polyester resins only). If at 20 degrees Centigrade, a 2% catalyst to resin mix will give 20 mins working time - this is not long if you are starting out and practicing. Mix your very first batch as small as possible, and use 1% catalyst - just so you get the hang of things. So make up 250 ml of resin with 2.5 ml of catalyst for the 1% mix and go and play with something easy to get used to it. (I use a syringe for the catalyst)

As you get more confident with it, make bigger batches, and maybe go for 2% catalyst to resin mix to speed up the reaction.

Some things work strangely - laminating onto wood takes longer to cure than laminating onto other fibreglass, painting your resin onto bare wood takes forever to harden, even though you maybe mixed it correctly (not a problem, just don't worry if it is still damp after several hours it will eventually set. If you need a quick mix go for 3% catalyst.

If you keep using the same pot for several mixes in a row - be aware that the residue from the last batch is still in the pot (unless wiped out thouroughly) and will affect the working time, so you will notice shorter gelling times.

The same roller and brush can be used for multiple mixes - but only if you keep at it - stop for an hour lunch break and they will be hard when you get back, so plan to do your glassing for a few hours at a time to keep the brush and roller active to prevent them being wasted too quickly.

Only mix what you can work with within the time period of the mixed batch.

Two people can make a huge difference, as one is rolling out the resin, the other can be paddle rolling the saturated mat, and then the other can mix more etc - probably 4 times faster progress than one person on they're own.

Don't ever scrimp on the resin quantity - cover the area to be glassed with resin, lay the CSM and then fully saturate the CSM so that it turns totally translucent after being rolled. If after this the appearance of the CSM is still milky white - then you haven't used enough resin to disolve the mat bonding agent properly (the stuff that give it its white colour. Rule of thumb is for every 100 grams of CSM you need 250 grams of resin. Too much is better than too little - but please play about in the early stages on something not too important to get used to it.

Good news - if you make a right mess of something and don't like what you did - just grind off the bad bits and redo. This stuff is very forgiving.

Sorry for repeating some of the info already given, but I got into a bit of a flow there :)
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Some specific fiberglassing questions for you fine folks

You might be able to save money by getting polyester catalyst locally and just order resin by UPS, hazmat applies to the MEKP not the resin.
 
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