SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

[ST]

I do my fishing primarily in Freshwater hunting for lake Stripers, and I think a decent Fishfinders would help me. My budget: $300 max. <br /><br />I’ve been reading the info on FURUNO LS4100; many highly recommends it; especially if used in Saltwater. Does anyone knows if it is also perform well in Freshwater? (where I fish, the depth ranges from 10 ft. to approx. 90 ft). <br /><br />Also frequently recommended is GARMIN FF250; with RAYMARINE DS400X as other alternative too.<br /><br />Would someone help me to decide which one to buy? Thanks!

 

[Boatist]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

Take your time picking a unit as they last a long time if you take care of it. Dont leave it on the boat in the hot sun all summer when it 100 plus degrees. Take it inside where it can stay at room temperature. Example is my Lowrance depth finder in a 1983 unit is still working perfect. My 1982 Furuno Loran C is also still working perfect. Go to a store and see all the unit before you make your final choice. Remember likely will have unit a long time so consider if you would like color even if you have to wait some time to afford it.<br /><br />Both units you listed are good units and should work for you. You may also want to look at a Eagle FishMark 480. I really like Lowrance best in fish finders and there color units are great but I do not see a Lowrance unit that meets your needs in your price range.<br /><br />In 10 to 90 feet of water you are deep enough that both Resoultion and power become important. A 200Khz transducer should fit your needs unless you are running downriggers and want to be able to see the downrigger balls. To see the downrigger balls normally takes a 50khz transducer with the wider cone angle.<br /><br />Furuno 4100 has a 5 inch screen with a resoultion of 320v by 240h. 320 should be enough resoultion for 90 feet. Power is 2400 watts PEP or 300 watts RMS and that is fine for 90 feet. It has a dual 50/200 khz transducer. Price $260.<br /><br />Garmin FishFinder 250 has a 4.5 inch screen with a resoultion of 320 x 320 and that should be enough for 90 feet. Power 3200 watts PEP or 400 watts RMS so plenty of power for 90 feet. Price for 200khz unit is $255 or $290 for the dual transducer 50/200 khz transducer.<br /><br />Eagle FishMark 480 has a 5 inch screen and a great resoultion of 480 x 480 for 90 feet of water. 200khz transducer and power is only 1500 watts PEP or 188 watts RMS. That may not be enough to see fish at 90 feet. It would see bottom just fine. If the lake is clear with out a lot of mud, alge, and air bubbles should be ok but marginal. Price $200

 

[ST]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

Boatist,<br />Thanks for taking the time to reply; and share what you know. From your input, and also from searching the archives, I think I am leaning rather heavily toward Garmin 250 and also for the following reasons, based on their claim:<br /><br />1.Internal back up memory for users settings.<br />2.Can connects to Garmin's GPS (maybe for my future needs). (so does Furuno's-but seems my future GPS most likely be Garmin's as well-budget).<br />3.Alarm: shallow/deep water, fish size, timer, temp, low bat voltage.<br /><br />By the way, if you want to try striper fishing in Lake Havasu-Arizona, please let me know -st2216@yahoo.com, maybe we can hook up!

 

[Boatist]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

ST<br />Checked both Lowrance and Garmin site and it is clear what Lowrance is going to the NMEA 2000 standard. Older units used NMEA 0183. I did not find any standard called out for Garmin units. As you mention being able to interconnect unit makes a big difference. VHF radios with the DSC red button must be connected to a GPS to work. I sure hope there not each doing their own system and not useing a standard. Lowrance also had product emulators and tutorals that are helpfull. Emulators you can download to your PC and learn to run the unit at home. Only difference is you use your mouse to hit buttons instead of your finger. Eagle same company as Lowrance has Emulators also.<br /><br />As I said before before you buy go see the unit. Take a pair of poleroid sunglasses and check out the screens. See if you can view the screen with the glasses on. Also see what the viewing angle is. Can you see it a little left or right, up or down or do you need to be right in front of the unit.<br /><br />Thank for the fishing offer but I find myself drawn more and more to the Pacific Ocean or San Francisco bay and delta.<br /><br />Good luck and let us know what you buy and what you liked about it.<br /><br /><br /> http://www.lowrance.com/Manuals/Files/NMEA2000NetworksGeneralInfo_0154-172_101005.pdf <br /><br /> http://www.lowrance.com/Support/sonar.asp <br /><br /> http://www.lowrance.com/Software/PCSoftware/demos.asp <br /><br /> http://www.eaglegps.com/Downloads/Emulators/default.htm

 

[MRS]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

ST I know this isnt the right place to post this but I was looking at your photos and saw your kicker motor I think was a 9.9? How is it in the river for trolling I have a 17ft. merc 120. that I want to run a kicker motor on but not sure what size to run do you fish the striper tournament at Havasu it is the greatest fun. Havasu is are favorite spot to fish also trying to figure out how to get the bigger stripers get tons of little ones a big one every now an then.

 

[phinsup]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

Garmin is NMEA complaint as well and will hook to a uniden dsc radio... that's wut i have. As far as I know most of the models on the market are nmea compliant, garmin also has their own network system, but looking at the pinouts in the manual i think it runs off the nmea 2000 leads.<br /><br />I would avoid the lowrance personally, might pooped after 4 months.<br /><br />had a raymarine loran and fishfinder on my boat when i bought it, they were ancient and still working.

 

[ST]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

Boatist,<br />I can see that you are really quite an expert on this Fishfinders area. I enjoyed reading the many inputs that you've been contributing in this forum, and have learned a few things from them! <br /><br />Forgot to mention my reason no. 4: that since my fishing primarily in 90ft. or less freshwater, I'd like to get the available single freq. (200 Khz) transducer fr. Garmin 250-again, thanks to you! You think I should worry about Garmin's compliance of the NMEA's standard at this time?<br /><br />MRS,<br />You're right, it's an 1986 9.9hp Yamaha 4 stroke kicker on that 17' hull; it's got plenty of power to push the boat for trolling (I heard that 6hp should be adequate already).<br /><br />Yeah, striper fishing is so much fun! That was the most powerful freshwater fish to fight againts (for me), it reminds me of the fight of "Bonito" off the S. California coast. But no tournament for me; I am just starting to learn this striper fishing myself, but I have to admit that I think I got hooked with it! (Feel free to email me).

 

[Boatist]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

ST<br />In the past Garmin also used NMEA standard as well. I was surprized not to see anything called out on their web site. I would want to know what their standard is but on a depth finder not that big a deal. On a GPS it is a must because for the DSC button on your VHF radio to work, if you buy one, then it must have GPS information to the VHF radio.<br /><br />Electronics are constantly chaining and in recent years not always better. An example would be in the older units depth finders had a number pad on them. My depth finder I can set to display bottom and up 10 or 20 or 30 feet. (Any distance over 10 feet.) So if I fishing for bottom fish off shore in 420 feet of water my unit spreads the bottom 10, 20, or 30 feet out over the full screen for a lot more detail. Since they went to a menu system best you can do is a 4 times zoom. So in the same 420 feet of water the screen is displaying the bottom 105 feet making even a large rockfish very hard to see. Still for all the people who never read the book and learn their unit the new way is better.<br /><br />I started to tell you that both Garmin and Furuno are hard to follow when the unit changes depth. In the past when the units changed depth the unit would jump to the new depth and the screen would look like you suddenly went 30 feet deeper or shallower when you really only changed 1 foot. This is very hard to read when working a shore line and anywhere where the depth changes. It may jump to a 30 foot deeper range then jump back to the old range then jump again. Lowrance started redrawing the entire screen so you get no jump at all and it is very easy to see if getting deeper or shallower. Reason I decided not to mention it is the new unit this year for Furuno are useing the same method as Lowrance. I see nothing on Garmin site but have to see the units to tell. Problem is Most of the demo used at boat shows do not change enough depth for you to see how it changes depth ranges. Demo are so fake and show fish that are not possible to see with a 20 degree transducer and in my opinion they are not worth much. Now and then you will find Rep that has actuall recording he made and noted what the each return was. It a shame that so many give dishonest answers to simple questions at the shows. I not sure if they do not know or are instructed that this answer sell more units.<br />Best bet if you want an honest answer is ask some of the Party boat Captains or Guides that are not selling units. Most will share lots of information.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

Sometimes there’s a little confusion over the two NMEA stds. The NMEA 0183 std is for information formatting and I think a std 9600 baud rate. It is basically “what” is said when stuff interconnects. The NMEA 2000 std is a spec for a high speed network. It is “how” things get said. Components that interconnect with the NMEA 2000 spec can talk and list and share data. All the equipment can be daisy chain connected, no need for a hub. The data transmitted over a NMEA 2000 network is formatted to the NMEA 0183 spec. The NMEA 0183 protocol is going to be around for as far as anyone can see into the future. Data fields have been defined for electronics that doesn’t even exist yet. Networks may change, but the data sent over then is going to remain NMEA 0183.<br /><br />NMEA 2000 was developed because Ethernet is susceptible to interference in a boat’s cramped environment, and it typically is runs off of a hub. Some of the major players in marine electronics are resisting implementing NMEA 2000 because it allows you to mix and match your components with plug and play connectivity. They prefer you buy only their products, so they have proprietary hi-speed network interfaces and a less flexible NMEA 0183 port to either talk (GPS units) or listen (VHF w/DCS).<br /><br />To give you some idea of where marine electronics connectivity is at, Teleflex has designed a couple NMEA 2000 compliant wi-fi systems for vessel control. The entire helm is wireless, no physical connections to the engines or rudder. The engines and rudder are controlled by broadcasting packets of NMEA 0183 data.<br /><br />Unless you intend to network a smorgasbord of tier 2 marine electronic, don’t worry about NMEA 2000 implementation. If you are using Furuno, RayMarine, or Simrad hardware, you’re stuck with their proprietary networking schemes, anyways.

 

[ST]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

Boatist,<br />Many thanks for sharing your knowledge in this FF field to everyone here in this forum. I am pretty sure a lot of people could benefit from your inputs. Not only from this tread but from other similar treads as well. This is the beauty of the Internet Forum, isn’t it?<br /><br />I went ahead, ordered through one of those Amazon affiliate, and have received the Garmin 250 with single freq. 200Khz transducer for $208.00 including shipping; sorry Boatist; seems that you like Lowrance better, but as you said, nothing is within my price range; thus the Garmin 250; which should adequately serve my need –I hope. <br /><br />I am still reading the manual, trying to get familiar with it. My first FF, was a Lowrance flasher type, I think I bought it in the early 80’s-I don’t think I caught a single fish, or showed me a fish with it, maybe it was just me, didn’t know how to use it. At the time I was like a lone ranger, didn’t know anyone to ask nor to talk about it; and no internet! Hope this modern unit would be more useful and easier to read for me; besides showing the fish, hope it can also warn me before I run my boat aground. <br /><br />(By the way, the 250/250C manual says that it allows interfacing for “NMEA0183”, version 2.3; nothing mentioned about NMEA2000)<br />

 

[ST]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

18rabbit,<br />I didn't see your post until I sent mine. Well, thanks to you too Commander, maybe Boatist or others will chime in and we all could benefit!<br />I am not ready for this NMEA stuff yet I think, but I am listening and learning....

 

[Boatist]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

ST<br />Great choice. I think Furuno, Lowrance and Garmin are all great units. My slight preference for Lowrance is mostly in the color units. The screens are just brighter and eaiser to see in sunlight. Also Lowrance GPS base maps contain buoy data. My Garmin GPSMAP 76 I had for about 5 years also has a base map with buoy data, however newer GPSMAP76 units have a worse base map and no Bouy data. I feel they did this to get more people to buy detail charts and unlock codes.<br /><br />I own a Furuno Loran C, a Garmin GPSMAP 76, and a Lowrance X50 depthfinder/fishfinder. All unit work perfect.<br /><br />Depth finders can help you find the fish or the structure they hide in. Good transducer location and mounting will help depth finder work at higher speeds. One tip to see lots of fish is turn the sensitivity up until you get some false return in the depth you are fishing. This usually means top of the screen will be black with surface cluter. Most people do not turn the sensitivity up near high enough.

 

[Boatist]

Re: SONAR/Fishfinder decision.

18Rabbit<br />Thanks for the information that a big help. Checking the NMEA 0183 standard Interface protocall I see from 4800 Buad to 38.4. Also appears can only have one sender but many listeners unless you set up a hub. I need to learn much more about these standards but appears lots of information out there. I wish Garmin listed these standards on their WEB site.<br /><br /><br /> http://www.nmea.org/pub/0183/ <br /><br /> http://www.kh-gps.de/nmea-faq.htm