Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

[backyardhockey3]

I was messing with my brakes trying to find a fluid leak. Took the drum off and had my son push on the surge actuator. The star wheel adjustment thing falls out. We get it back in place but cant get the drum back on no matter how much we try. Drum goes on fine without the star wheel. These brakes are one year old with lots left on the shoo. Do I need that star wheel thing?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Of course you do. Are all the springs present? Do the wheel cylinders depress fully? You never press on the actuator with the drum off. You will pop the wheel cylinder piston out of its bore.

Post a picture of your assembly. Maybe one of us can see if there is something put together incorrectly.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

The star wheel is the brake adjuster. If it was not needed it wouldn't be there. Do not be surprised if the pistons are now stuck in the whe cylinder.

 

[backyardhockey3]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

You never press on the actuator with the drum off.

I learned that as of 6 PM on Sunday. After putting the drum back on brakes seemed to work when pressing actuator. Took it for a spin and break in question was cooler than other side. Before, that break had been hotter.

All springs are present. So can I get the piston back in place without any special tools? I have never messed with a wheel cylinder b4.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

So you have all the parts back in place including the adjustment star and the wheel cylinder?

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

I learned that as of 6 PM on Sunday. After putting the drum back on brakes seemed to work when pressing actuator. Took it for a spin and break in question was cooler than other side. Before, that break had been hotter.

All springs are present. So can I get the piston back in place without any special tools? I have never messed with a wheel cylinder b4.

yeah you can do it, you just have to hold your mouth in the right position, Seriously there is a trick to it but it can be done, I don't have any advice for you as this is one of the reasons I stick to Disc brakes LOL

ok thought about it...
only thing I remember is to shorten the throw on the adjuster and then once the brakes are assembled adjust up to the proper initial setting where the drum barely fits on without rubbing, from that point put the drum on and then the tire, torque and tow, if I remember right some only adjust when the brakes are applied in reverse so keep that in mind.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

if I remember right some only adjust when the brakes are applied in reverse so keep that in mind.

Not trailer brakes.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Not trailer brakes.

Good to know, thanks Bruce

 

[backyardhockey3]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

So you have all the parts back in place including the adjustment star and the wheel cylinder?

Not the adjustment star. When I put that back in I could not get the drum on. SO from theses replies I'm guessing that the cylinder piston is extended/out of line now which explains not being able to put the drum on with the star? Also, noticed fluid at the piston when I started messing with it AFTER the star fell out. I think it was dry b4. The real brake fluid leak has been found on the other side.

Have not tried to remove cylinder.

 

[Bayou Dave]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Spin the star adjuster until one side retracts inside as far as it will go. Put it back on and then adjust it back out until you can barely get the brake drum on.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

ok on the back side of the plate you will find a small zerk which is for bleeding the brakes loosen it and compress the cylinder then tighten the zerk I believe this will be a 1/4" or 5/16" fitting near where the brake line enters the cylinder, take your star adjuster and screw it in making its length shorter, then reassemble your brakes.

Get your drum and fit it onto the lug nuts it will be very loose, remove the drum and turn the star adjuster to lengthen it, continue this until you feel the pads start to rub the drum and then back the star adjuster off a little, put the drum and tire back on.

You may need a spring tool from the local auto parts store, I never needed it you can manipulate the springs with a good sized screw driver but the spring tool does make it easier.

If your slave cylinder is leaking it would be a good idea to get a rebuild kit and a honing bit.

all this talk about drum brakes is bringing back memories!!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Post a picture of your assembly. Putting it back together without the adjuster is NOT an option.

Don't bother ever rebuilding a wheel cylinder. New ones are inexpensive. $25

http://www.shopchampiontrailers.com/HYDRAULIC-DRUM-BRAKES/products/159/
http://www.shopchampiontrailers.com/ALUMINUM-WHEEL-CYLINDER-LEFT/productinfo/537/

I always do a coarse adjust of the drum brakes before I put the drum on. If you adjust the shoes so that the drum goes on just before it starts binding you are close. Then you can then use a brake adjust spoon from the backside. Its a pain in the but to have to do all of the adjustment from the back. That is why you get 95% of it done before you put the drum on.

 

[backyardhockey3]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Spin the star adjuster until one side retracts inside as far as it will go. Put it back on and then adjust it back out until you can barely get the brake drum on.

Tried many, many times. Was getting dark and had to move trailer so put drum on w/o star thing.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Post a picture of your assembly. Putting it back together without the adjuster is NOT an option.

Absolutely, you need this done correctly

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

yeah you can do it, you just have to hold your mouth in the right position, Seriously there is a trick to it but it can be done, I don't have any advice for you as this is one of the reasons I stick to Disc brakes LOL

ok thought about it...
only thing I remember is to shorten the throw on the adjuster and then once the brakes are assembled adjust up to the proper initial setting where the drum barely fits on without rubbing, from that point put the drum on and then the tire, torque and tow, if I remember right some only adjust when the brakes are applied in reverse so keep that in mind.

Free backing(drum) only get adjusted manually in a forward motion.They don't adjust automatically like the cars did when they worked.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

Post a picture of your assembly. Putting it back together without the adjuster is NOT an option.

Don't bother ever rebuilding a wheel cylinder. New ones are inexpensive. $25

a
WHEEL CYLINDER,DRUM BRAKES,wheel cylinder,drum brakes-Champion Trailers

I always do a course adjust of the drum brakes before I put the drum on. If you adjust the shoes so that the drum goes on just before it starts binding you are close. Then you can then use a brake adjust spoon from the backside. Its a pain in the but to have to do all of the adjustment from the back. That is why you get 95% of it done before you put the drum on.

X2^^^^

 

[gm280]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

OMG...this is so easy to do but so hard to explain how to do. Since it is quite sure you popped the wheel cylinder piston or pistons out now, you do have a new situation. And simply reinstalling them back may not fix it either. WOW how to explain what needs done. This could be a long post but you have a serious problem unless you are able to get everything back correctly and working correctly too. The wheel cylinder is now your main issue. It may need to be replaced because you have no idea how to fix it. There is more then likely a ridge inside the wheel cylinder that will need to be cleaned out before reinstalling the spring, piston(s), cups and rubber dust caps back on. Otherwise they will leak for sure... So unless you know how to take the wheel cylinder off or clean it while it is still on the back plate, STOP until that is fixed... It may even need a cylinder hone to clean it up. I suggest to replace it now and get somebody to help you with this problem... JMHO! It is seriously too important to try and explain to you on a comment board...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

There are about a gazillion tutorials on the web and every shop manual in every library has more than adequate detail on what a hydraulic brake system works. Google is your friend. As was mentioned, the best solution is to simply replace the wheel cylinder and keep your helper away from the coupler until you have things reassembled. Then bleed the brake system properly. Again, service manuals and Google are your friend.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

... After putting the drum back on brakes seemed to work when pressing actuator. Took it for a spin and break in question was cooler than other side. Before, that break had been hotter...

Without the Adjusting Rod in place, the Brakes will run a lot cooler because the brakes are not working.
At best, only One Shoe is being engaged marginally.
At worst the Brake piston is pushing against nothing and will be pushed out of the cylinder.




How Brakes Work 101... Refer to Right Side Brake Assembly in Photo.

Piston in Brake Cylinder(A) Pushes against Front Brake Shoe(B).
Front Brake Shoe(B) contacts Rotating Brake Drum (Not Shown) and moves Clockwise in the Drum Slightly.
Front Brake Shoe(B) presses against Brake Adjusting Rod(C) which move slightly backwards.
Brake Adjusting Rod(C) Presses against Rear Brakes Shoe(D).
Rear Brake Shoe(D) contacts Rotating Brake Drum (Not Shown) and moves Clockwise in the Drum Slightly.
Rear Brake Shoe(D) Presses against the Rigid Master Brake Post(E) which does Not Move.

The Net Effect is that the combination of Brake shoes and Adjusting rod form a loose cylinder that increases in circumference, and so also Diameter, and rub against the inside of the Brake Drum, causing it to slow the wheel.

So you see, without the Brake Adjust Rod/Star Wheel, You might as well leave out the Brake Shoes Also!

 

[backyardhockey3]

Re: Star adjust wheel for drum brakes needed?

OP here:

Thanks for everybodys input and especially the diagram UncleWillie. So I took the backplate off and removed the cylinder. Took cylinder apart and put all back together. Drum went on nice as can be. So it sure seems that the piston got too extended when the brackes were activated without the drum.