starter/bendix question

[orlandoclippertim]

tried a first start of a rde-17 Johnson. new ign. water hose on reverse outlet- and in plastic barrel.
Used syringe to shoot a bit of fuel past throttle plate. Pulled rope-- blam-blam-pfft git a few kicks.
Then I tried the same thing again with starter. on about the 3-rd go with the starter --- the Bendix gear stuck
in the "up" position. Locked tight. took flywheel off and then took starter and bracket off. Pulled core out of starter.
Now I see the problem. There is a steel cap just under the end nut. When the gear spirals up-- a small return spring
is compressed. that spring - as it compresses- goes up inside that end cap. there is a passage cut into the underside of the cap so the spring has a place to go as the gear bottoms out against the lower edge of the cap. The problem is-- this
cap seems to be bent a little so the gap that the spring goes up into is too big on one side and not big enough on the other.
I think when the gear climbed the spiral the spring got pinched and prevented the gear from dropping back down as it should have after the ring gear overspeeded it. If I can remove the end nut-- I can replace that cap. ( If the shaft isn't bent there-)

The question is--- I have the starter rotor out-- what part of the rotor assy. do I grab so I can get the nut off the tip of the shaft? Looks like right handed (normal) threads there. Is the laminated core area strong enough to hold with something
????? Like a wood jawed vice or a chain wrench with padding ?

Also the insides of the starter are greasy and dirty. I would guess something like a spray can of CRC motor cleaner would be safe-- followed by compressed air ?

Anyone done this ?

Tim

 

[Joe Reeves]

You may be on target as far as the bendix gear sticking... BUT... be advised that the bendix gear does naturally stay engaged within the flywheel teeth if the engine doesn't start running. It is the sudden increase of rpm when the engine starts running that shoves the bendix gear out of the flywheel... and the spring to hold it down out of the way.

 

[F_R]

Got an air or electric impact wrench? It will zip that nut off in less than a second, just holding the armature in your other hand. If you feel you need more help holding it, grab the gear with a pair of Channellocks and wrench on the nut by hand.

Your CRC should be fine.

 

[orlandoclippertim]

Joe-- yes - I was aware that it works that way. I think it pinched the spring wire and that stuck it. It was still stuck even after I had the rotor out in my hand. the passage is clearly un even.

FR-- Oh Yes --- the impact should help. Just needs a little shock. Good thinking--- I hardly ever use the air impact.
Usually when I have something stuck -- the impact wont phase it due to its larger size …..
Will try that tonight.....

This starter is an "autolite" brand and it is bigger than any other outboard starter I ever saw. The bottom of it
goes all the way down to the bottom of the pan. big enough to be an old automotive starter. must weigh 30 Lbs.

T

 

[orlandoclippertim]

Got the starter nut off-- took the whole starter apart. Cut the comutator smooth on the lathe. Cleaned and greased
the bearings and the brush assy's. The steel cup under the nut was not bent. Now I dont think it was the little spring
caught now. At first i did.

Got it all put back together and tried again today. I got the little bugger to idle for 3 or 4 sec. although rough and shakey.
The new ignition works great. After about 5 attempts the small gear got stuck up again.
This time I removed the nut and noticed that one of the BIG coil springs UNDER the gear was in compression. It was pushing the nut up as I was unscrewing it. Once the nut was off the big spring was trying to push the gear up even further-- but it couldnt because the gear couldnt come up any more due to the flywheel.

It appears that something in the mechanism below the small gear (springs and splines-) is not releasing at the proper time. So I will try to take that part apart and see if I can see a problem. I cant really see how that parts works-----
if I could it would help hunting for the problem.

The small gear is supposed to retract downward once the starter come to a stop (if the engine doesnt start)
Instead it is locked up under spring tension from underneath.

Anyone had this problem ?

I got it to idle roughly for 3 or 4 seconds. Now that I know it can run--- I will overhaul the carb. Im sure it rough because of the ancient carb. The gas lines were as brittle as uncooked spagetti.

 

[F_R]

The gear is NOT necessarily supposed to drop down once the starter comes to a stop. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. The important thing is the flywheel is what kicks the starter gear down when the motor starts and the flywheel is running faster than the no longer powered starter. I don't think there is anything wrong with yours.

EDIT: btw, the small spring on the starter is only an anti-rattle spring. It is NOT designed to push the gear down, only to keep it from vibrating and dancing around once the motor is running and the gear is retracted.