Starter problems?

[Keepi time]

1989 90 hp Johnston j90tlaem. I took my boat is for servicing and ask them to look at my starting issues. Got it back and have the same issue. If I put a charger on the battery it fires off no problem, so thought it was a battery issue. Bought a new battery thinking that would fix it but still did the same thing. Starter will engage without the charger for a few turns but then doesn't do anything after that. Bendex is left up engaged in the flywheel. I was thinking stater solenoid but mechanic says its a bushing in the bendex that is slipping like a spun prop he says. My question if that's the case, why would adding the charger eliminate that issue. It's a brand new starter. Any feedback is appreciated
Thanks

 

[JB]

Re: Starter problems?

The first thing to do is remove both battery cables. Inspect for weak or swollen spots, then scrub all connectors shiny and reinstall. That might not fix it, but it is a common problem and costs nothing.

Next, jump a freshly charged battery to the starter. . .+ to the + stud on the starter, - to the engine block. See what it does.

If the problem is indeed the starter it can be rebuilt by an auto starter shop.

 

[Keepi time]

Re: Starter problems?

I have brand new marine grade #2 awg cables, I have cleaned every connection on the ignition switch and engine, solenoid and starter. If you bypass the solenoid. Voltage at the battery is 12.8. Voltage at the solenoid on battery side is 12.8. Continuity between the small terminals on the solenoid is 0 ohms. ( not sure if that is good or not with the switch in the off position. It is a year old starter. Hardly used at all. Brand new battery. If you put a charger on the battery it will start up no problem. Does the charger increase something allowing a weak component somewhere to work. Last day here with the boat so hoping to figure it out before I have to leave it for 3 weeks. Any help would be awesome.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter problems?

What happened when you jumped directly to the starter?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Starter problems?

Continuity between the small terminals on the solenoid is 0 ohms.

If indeed there is zero ohms between those two terminals, there is an internal break in the solenoid circuit that would prevent the solenoid from engaging whether as battery charger is hooked up or not.

With the key in the START position, voltage is applied to one of those 3/8" nut terminals of the solenoid. The voltage travels from there to the internal solenoid windings and out to the remaining 3/8" nut terminal to a powerhead ground. This creates a magnetic force within the solenoid to strongly attract the internal solenoid plunger to slam into the internal larger solenoid terminal contacts which completes the voltage travel passage to the starter.

If I read your post correctly (as quoted above), I would replace the solenoid on general principles if nothing else. If you made a typo and the solenoid does pull in (engages), the solenoid may be okay.

I also recommend that you double check the cleanliness and tightness of all the wiring associated with the starter circuit..... Remove and clean all cables and wires, clean their end terminals "and the components they attach to", then tighten with a wrench or pliers, not your fingers if wing nuts are encountered.

This includes the actual battery terminals themselves, and the ground cable at the powerhead.

Note that the fact that attaching a battery charger directly to the battery terminals makes a difference which cranks the engine over indicates that the battery terminal connection to the battery is flawed! Your "mechanic" should have picked up on that.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Starter problems?

Follow up on JB's comment. Try to jump start the starter with a set of automotive jumper cables and a fresh battery. If the starter cranks normally, it's not the starter. Possible the contacts inside the starter solenoid are burned. When these solenoids get old, the contacts inside accumulate carbon. When that happens, they won't transfer the heavy current loads required to start the engine.

 

[Don Hansen]

Re: Starter problems?

If indeed there is zero ohms between those two terminals, there is an internal break in the solenoid circuit that would prevent the solenoid from engaging whether as battery charger is hooked up or not.

If there was a break in the circuit wouldn't the reading be infinity? Don't know what meter he's using but maybe he has it set to too high a scale.

DLH

DLH

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Starter problems?

If there was a break in the circuit wouldn't the reading be infinity? Don't know what meter he's using but maybe he has it set to too high a scale.

When I say "zero".... I mean that the needle does not move on a analog meter, and a digital meters reading would not change.... a reading one would obtain if having a meter attached to both ends of a wire that is cut in the middle.

 

[Keepi time]

Re: Starter problems?

Thanks Joe! I was hoping you would see this. Yes I do have continuity (zero) between those two smaller terminals. I did not think that was a good thing. Note that this was with the key in the off position. I have checked my connections really good. Until I could see bright metal on every connection. I know it can only be ignition switch, wiring to the solenoid, solenoid itself, or starter. It's just odd that it cranks beautifully with a charger on it. And it's only set to the 2 amp charge. After you crank it one time, let it run for a sec and shut it off, unplug the charger and she will fire up in less than a second. I am pretty upset with my mechanic as I thought this would have been a simple fix. Him just charging the battery and not even trouble shooting any further had me a little upset. Fished from the pier all weekend!!! I have ordered a new solenoid anyway. If that doesn't fix it, it's got to be switch or wiring. Just can't see it being the starter since it starts so well jumping the solenoid. Thanks again for all of you guys input! Ill keep you posted on the results.

 

[Don Hansen]

Re: Starter problems?

Your description of analog and digital meters is correct. But you wrote "zero ohms". Not trying to be a wise guy but that describes a complete circuit. Actually, there's no such thing as zero ohms at normal temperatures.

DLH

 

[Keepi time]

Re: Starter problems?

What happened when you jumped directly to the starter?

She started right up.

 

[Keepi time]

Re: Starter problems?

Your description of analog and digital meters is correct. But you wrote "zero ohms". Not trying to be a wise guy but that describes a complete circuit. Actually, there's no such thing as zero ohms at normal temperatures.

DLH

A complete circuit was exactly what I was describing and exactly what I got from his post. You do realize your are analyzing a master technician I hope.

 

[Keepi time]

Re: Starter problems?

On this continuity thing, I hope I am right in that there should NOT be continuity between the two terminals with the key in the off position. Seems there should only be continuity with the key turned to the start position

 

[Fed]

Re: Starter problems?

Between the 2 small terminals there should be continuity all the time and is should read close to zero ohms.
You can't test resistance with power on, it will blow the fuse in your meter.

 

[Fed]

Re: Starter problems?

Oh, if the bendix bush is slipping you should still see the nut on top of the starter shaft spinning even though the flywheel is stationary.
Put your voltmeter positive on the starter motor positive terminal and the negative on the motor block, hit the key and see what you've got.

 

[Bill3434]

Re: Starter problems?

Had similar problem on my 77 70hp johnson, I took my start apart and cleaned it replaced brushes (not sure of the proper term) but it worked really great afterwards. Looked like a carbon mine when I started. Could actually see nice shiny copper when I was done.

 

[JB]

Re: Starter problems?

She started right up.

This test eliminates the starter as the fault. Focus now on battery, cables and solenoid.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Starter problems?

Your description of analog and digital meters is correct. But you wrote "zero ohms". Not trying to be a wise guy but that describes a complete circuit. Actually, there's no such thing as zero ohms at normal temperatures.

DLH

Oh boy....:facepalm:

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Starter problems?

On this continuity thing, I hope I am right in that there should NOT be continuity between the two terminals with the key in the off position. Seems there should only be continuity with the key turned to the start position

Regardless of whether the ignition switch is ON or OFF, the windings within the starter solenoid do not change. There is always continuity between those two (2) 3/8" nut terminals. Otherwise voltage could not travel thru the circuit in order to create the solenoid's magnetic field which is needed to pull in the internal plunger.

Let it go.... this is not the poster's problem.

Keepi Time.... Reread the last small paragraph my post #5 closely!