Starter Shaft Stuck?

[jpbrake]

Does the starter shaft that engages the flywheel move freely up and down? Mine spins like crazy but does not go up, nor can I pull it up by hand?

 

[DJ]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

The shft does not move, the pinion gear on the shaft moves.

Do this:

1. Disconnect the battery.

2. "Walk" the starter gear up the shaft with your fingers. To do that turn the gear in the opposite direction that the starter would turn. The gear will go up the shaft.

3. Lightly lubricate the shaft with a light oil. Work the oil in by walking the gear up and down the shaft.

4. Reconnect the battery and clean the negative cable where it attaches to the engine block.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

Start by cleaning the shaft and gear as well as possible. It should not be greased. Very light machine oil, and very little of it, is the way to go. Sewing machine oil is about the right weight.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

as said above, and 90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

 

[jpbrake]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

Thanks for the quick replies.

However, I still cannot move the shaft up. There is a black plastic cover over the top of the shaft. Does the metal gear move over this plastic?

I have disconnected the battery and tried to walk the gears up. It just spins round and round. Not up.

Sprayed and soaked with WD40. Still no upwards movement by hand.

Can you explain exactly where I should be grabbing the gear to move it? Or vice grip the shaft above the gear?

 

[DJ]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

NO VICE GRIPS. You'll mar the shaft.

Try turning the gear both ways. I should spin easily and catch one way and walk up.

That may not be your issue. Do #4 as I stated above and mentioned by others.

 

[F_R]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

You have the right concept, using the vice grips. By that, I mean you have to somehow get a good grip on the shaft to keep it from turning, then while holding the shaft stationary, rotate the gear. Turning it in the right direction will make it climb up the shaft to engage the flywheel. Just don't mar the shaft with vice grips or anything else!!

As tashasdaddy suggested, there probably is nothing wrong with the gear. It generally is electrical trouble. What kicks the gear upward is the reaction from the shaft starting to turn almost instantly. Just running "fast" doesn't get it. It has to START turning instantly. It's an inertia thing.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

Inertia!!!!! Bad cable, connections. bad battery.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

The starter shaft has a groove in it that wraps around the shaft in a spiral manner. Protrusions inside the bendix ride in this groove. When the starter spins, the rotational force of the shaft causes the bendix to rise up that spriral. Yup, Inertia. Therefore the bendix locks in one direction so when it engages the flywheel, the flywheel turns. When the engine fires, the flywheel causes the bendix to spin faster than the starter so if you are a little late letting go of the key the bendix free-wheels to avoid damage. Normally however, just letting go of the key stops the starter and the bendix drops down the shaft. Check the shaft and groove for any burrs and file them smooth. Clean the shaft and groove and then assemble the bendix. A light lub is all that's need on the shaft. If you have no sewing machine oil as stated, use 3 in 1. I would not use WD-40 as you said. Hve you tested the battery? Tested voltage at starter?

 

[jpbrake]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

I don't have a volatage meter. I have charged the battery and checked all connections. They are clean and tight.

I cannot move the starter gears UP to the flywheel by hand. Is this normal? I've read and been told to move the gears by hand and lube the shaft. But I cannot raise the small gears at all?

Can someone tell me if the gears slide up and over the plastic shaft that protrudes above the gears or does that shaft also move up when the gears move as designed?

If I jump the battery with my truck and the gears still do not engage what is my next step? I really don't want to take this in for a service call.

Engine is a 2004 Johnson 50 HP.

Comment. Last time we had the boat out it did this same thing at the dock. After a few tries it did engage and worked flawlessly all day. It only took a quick turn of the key to start.

Now it just spins the starter without jumping up to the flywheel.

Thank you for the suggestions and patience.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

The normal way these work, is there is a groove in the starter shaft that is designed to throw the gear up by centrifugal force, once it starts to spin (usually clockwise) till it engages the flywheel, and cranks the motor to start (usually clockwise) when the motor starts, and you release the key to the run position, the starter shaft stops rotating, and the weight of the gear lets it drop down by gravity. If it is sticking it needs to be lubed as mentioned previously here. If, by chance the starter is spinning in the wrong direction, (battery cables reversed) it will not work, simple as that. Sometimes there is a spring below the gear on the shaft to help this work.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

the bendix gear should turn freely in only one direction.

 

[jpbrake]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

Thanks for the photo showing the bendix gear and shaft. However, my shaft above the gear is a smooth black plastic sleeve.

The bendix moves freely in both directions but not UP.

Does the entire shaft move up when inertia takes over and throws both the gear and the plastic sleeve up engaging the flywheel?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

If that picture is of your engine, then you have some serious corrosion going on and the bendix is seized to the starter motor shaft. You need to disassemble the bendix from the starter and judging by your comments, I suggest you just remove the starter and take it to a automotive starter/generator/alternator shop to have them repair it. I mean no disrespect but I think you are over your head on this repair. If you can rotate the bendix either direction but it does not rise, you are turning the starter motor shaft as well and that says the two parts are seized together. For reliable operation the bendix will need replacement. And do not be surprised if the shop tells you the starter shaft is too corroded to operate reliably.

 

[DJ]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

If that picture is of your engine, then you have some serious corrosion going on and the bendix is seized to the starter motor shaft. You need to disassemble the bendix from the starter and judging by your comments, I suggest you just remove the starter and take it to a automotive starter/generator/alternator shop to have them repair it. I mean no disrespect but I think you are over your head on this repair. If you can rotate the bendix either direction but it does not rise, you are turning the starter motor shaft as well and that says the two parts are seized together. For reliable operation the bendix will need replacement. And do not be surprised if the shop tells you the starter shaft is too corroded to operate reliably.

When I saw the picture, I have to agree with Silvertip. Local fix or a new/rebilt starter may be in order. They're available, here on iboats.

Here's a C & P from the iboats parts finder.

50(5) 1989-2004 18-5624 5389 586279 583482, 585056

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

agree

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

pretty corroded for a 3 year old starter.....

 

[ezeke]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

Take a look at the diagram of a Bosch type starter. It may help:

I think that the starter in your photo may be part # 0586768. It will cross to a Mallory 9-15037:

http://www.iboats.com/Mallory_Start...4313053--**********.424452308--view_id.363743

 

[kennyk]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

Funny I just looked at my buddy's starter this morning he was having trouble with and it's exactly like the bad one here. One thing that struck me odd is the bendix (drive) didn't look like it incorporated the clutch like most I'm familiar with and like the one in the pictures posted by tashasdaddy. Did I miss something or is this some new design? Ken

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Starter Shaft Stuck?

The clutch is there but the black skirting around the bottom of the bendix sort of covers it up. The skirting covers a ridge on the starter housing to deter moisture intrusion as well but I take it this is a salt water motor so stuff can get buggered up in a hurry if not kept after.