Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

[blizz]

2001 Volvo Penta 4cyl......

So last week my solenoid broke. The post where the positive connects to broke clean off. I bought another solenoid and put it on and installed the starter. Problem now is that when I connect the battery, it sparks right off the bat and once it has solid contact, the starter motor starts up without the key even in the ignition. Only thing I can think of is that the wiring is off somewhere but I connected it the way I thought it was before. Longer post towards the top, shorter post on the bottom, black ground type on the bottom post going to the starter, positive cables on the longer post at the top...yellow wire on the smaller inside post and purple on the smaller outside post. I've reversed the yellow and purple and it's still doing the same thing. Only thing I can think of is if the solenoid is upside down? Maybe the positive goes on the shorter post? I've been messing with this all evening and I'm at the end of my rope here. I was hoping and planning on going out to the lake tomorrow and monday but that's all in jeopardy now.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

try disconnecting the yellow/red and purple wires from the smaller posts on the solenoid

if when you connect the large red (+) battery cable to the large post the engine turns over, the solenoid is "stuck" in the on/closed position

could be you got a bad solenoid

one other test is to leave the red (+) battery cable disconnected, connect the yellow/red wire to the inside small post and try turning the engine over

if you hear a loud "click" then you have unstuck the solenoid, try "clicking" it several times to help unstick it

if this does not work, get a new solenoid, or better yet a whole new starter

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

See when I connect the battery, the starter motor starts turning but the engine doesn't turn over. It's like the solenoid isn't engaging...it's not pushing the gear to engage flywheel but then starter motor is running. It's strange. I'll give that a shot. In a pinch, can a regular GM solenoid be used? I'm not going to be able to get and try another solenoid here in town so the next best thing is going to be to try some sort of solenoid that I can buy from Napa or something.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

sounds like the bendix in the starter isn't forcing the gear outward to engage the ring gear on the flywheel

i would just replace the entire starter with a marine starter, not an automotive starter

do not ever use automotive parts on a boat

recipe for disaster

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

oh yeah i wouldn't do the entire starter...if there's something wrong with the solenoid, i was thinking of replacing it with an automotive one just to see what it would do and hold me over for the weekend. i didn't mention but the keys aren't even in the boat...i'm not even trying to turn it. the starter kicks on right when the positive is connected to the battery.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

Is this a standard or hi-torq starter http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Techbk/97/97hga4.pdf

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

standard

 

[cr2k]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

A picture of the starter (wiring) would be a great big help.
Also can't help but wonder if you got the spring back in it.

I am sure it is just a slight wiring issue.

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

Hell, if I thought it would help, I'd put a video up. I'll get some pics tomorrow and maybe even a video. I know the wires on the smaller posts are right, the only thing that would be different is if it bigger posts were reversed. I have the power on the longer of the two posts and the thick black wire on the shorter post. It's not that I can't get the starter to start the engine, it's that as soon as I put the battery cable back on the battery terminal, it sparks and then kicks the starter on. I can hear the motor in the starter running but there's no key in the ignition whatsoever. It's like it's getting power constantly. Could there be a problem with the ignition switch?

 

[Adirondack]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

I think the only thing that should be connected to the short big lug is the tab that goes down into the starter motor. If I'm reading right you have a black wire connected to it? A picture would be a big help.

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

Sounds like you've attached the main positive cable from battery directly to the starter? you mentioned re-installing the starter in your first post, the solonoid is normally open spring return switch, pretty simple.

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

There's three connected to the bigger post....one thick red one that goes directly to the battery, another thick red one that has a smaller red one on the same loom and then an orange one. Then there's a black one on the shorter post that goes to the starter. Finally, there's a yellow one in the small inside post and a purple one on the small outside post. So yes, there is a cable that goes from the battery straight to the solenoid. I'll post pics in a few minutes.

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

according to this, http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/13/13E4R2.PDF, there is one that goes from the battery straight to the solenoid. yes i know that's for a merc but i have the same color wiring.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

See when I connect the battery, the starter motor starts turning but the engine doesn't turn over. It's like the solenoid isn't engaging...

assuming you installed the new solenoid correctly, then yes it IS engaging

the solenoid is what controls the connection to turn the starter motor

the solenoid has nothing to do with the gears engaging, that is a spring inside the starter that is forced out when the motor turns

you need to disconnect the yellow/red wire from the solenoid and try connecting the battery cable

if the starter turns, then the solenoid is installed wrong or it is bad

just buy a whole new marine starter and be done with it

 

[Don S]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

the solenoid has nothing to do with the gears engaging,

Oh yes it does, on a Chevy starter, the solenoid is what pushe the bendix into the flywheel.

See when I connect the battery, the starter motor starts turning but the engine doesn't turn over. It's like the solenoid isn't engaging...

It sounds like you have the battery cable hooked to the wrong terminal on the solenoid.
In the picture below, if you hook the battery cable to C instead of A, the motor will turn but the bendix will not engage the flywheel.

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

Here's a picture:

Here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=334BgS6GusQ

Looks like I might have it upside down. I guess it couldn't hurt to reverse how it's connected...but the one I just took off had the positive connected to the longer of the two posts and the black one that goes to the starter on the shorter one. Maybe the solenoid is bad....maybe I have it connected wrong. There's really only one other test and that's to swap the cables and see what it does. Oh and the purple one is not connected in that picture, I know that. I took it off while troubleshooting but it has been connected.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

Oh yes it does, on a Chevy starter, the solenoid is what pushe the bendix into the flywheel.



It sounds like you have the battery cable hooked to the wrong terminal on the solenoid.
In the picture below, if you hook the battery cable to C instead of A, the motor will turn but the bendix will not engage the flywheel.

i did not know that, thanks for the clarification, don

 

[Don S]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

It does look like you have the solenoid upside down, the flange shown by the red arrow should twist down into the starter housing itself to help support the solenoid when it pulls the bendix into position.
However, that in itself will not run the starter motor only. That, I think might be because the red cable is touching the lower cable (see yellow arrow) That WILL make the motor run.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

The hi-torq starters dont have that tab usually found on standard starter solenoids, it is possable to install it reversed.

 

[blizz]

Re: Starter/solenoid help for Labor day please!

Well I made sure that none of the wires were touching and I reversed the solenoid and no dice. Even with nothing else connected, as soon as I touch the positive power cable to either post, the starter motor starts running. I guess the last thing I can try is the relay but other than that, I may just have a bad part. I'm not spending 399 on the volvo penta starter so I need to start looking for after market ones. Thank you to everyone that tried to help. Nothing you can do when you have bad parts huh?