stator scams?

mellowyellow

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Messages
5,327
in all my years of running outboards I have never<br />had a stator fail (knock on wood), yet I see lots<br />of folks being told by their wrenches they need<br />one... some for problems that don't seem related<br />to charging system at all to me??? :confused: <br />is it just me? do some wrenches LOVE to change<br />stators or am I just mis-informed and it is more<br />common than I think for them to go bad?<br />hoping some of you pros. can enlighten me here.<br />thanks in advance,<br />M.Y.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: stator scams?

Hi Mellow<br /><br />The only thing I have heard, is that the older larger Mercs ate stators on a regular basis. Other than that, I think it's a catch-all...
 

BF

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Apr 8, 2003
Messages
1,489
Re: stator scams?

like the "ECU" of the automotive world?? I know of an engineering student whose summer job was to bench test used auto ECU's that had been replaced because they were bad. Idea was to repair and resell... spent 3 months testing, and lo and behold, didn't come across one bad one... so they were just cleaned up and re-sold to the next sucker err, I mean customer. Funny how disconnecting the battery for a few minutes seems to "fix" the "bad" computer!<br /><br />Brent
 

mellowyellow

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Jun 8, 2002
Messages
5,327
Re: stator scams?

thanks Rick, just wondering if my opinion on this<br />subject is WAY off base. if it is, afraid it will<br />influence advice I might give here. it did just<br />yerterday, but luckily DHP shined the light on<br />my bias :)
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,853
Re: stator scams?

Personally, I find the frequency of their failing to be suspect. Especially when the failure comes just after a visit to the mechanic. A stator is a very simple piece of equipment, with no moving parts. It isn't that difficult to determine if it is good or bad. <br /><br />There is no excuse for the number of times we have heard about engines being serviced, then the switchbox goes out the next week, and then the trigger the next week, and then the rectifier the next week, and then the stator, etc. They just keep throwing parts at it(motivation obvious). Maybe they don't know any better, or maybe they see a cash cow.<br /><br />The general boating public doesn't know what a stator is. Often times they are told "these electrical problems are hard to pin down". So they go along with the either unknowledgable or scamming mechanic, and replace it. I've heard it myself, went home and put a new coil in, and the problem was fixed.<br /><br />Now don't all you outboard techs get worked up here. You all know there are some unscrupulous techs out there, and they are in the minority. You also know that when a service manager says "take care of this customer real good", that it can be taken two ways.<br /><br />Any of you ever have a master cylinder or proportioning valve go bad, just after having your brakes done. Not hard to figure out how this happened. All you have to do is push the pistons in and force the fluid sludge back into the proportioning valve. Now, maybe nothing will happen, but maybe it will clog, and then we can replace it, and maybe the calipers and rotors too if they warped. Ever have to have 3 front left brake rotors and calipers replaced, within a month of having the pads changed? I have.<br /><br />How many times have techs put new parts into a motor, and it didn't fix the problem?<br /><br />Now, how many times did they put your old parts back in and refund the money for the new part you didn't need? not many. <br /><br />The same goes for computers. If you take it in for service, they know you don't know much about them. A woman I work with just paid $184 to have a new (cheap) modem installed, and have the system "cleaned up".<br /><br />That being said, I would like to thank the honest and knowledgable techs out there, for their honesty, integrity, and hard work.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: stator scams?

On my engine they are know to fail (mercury Sport Jet 90 and 120).<br /><br />My buddies did fail, no spark, failed ohms test. Shorted out internally.<br /><br />My brothers PWC had the stator fail also.<br /><br />I agree, it is really weird that stators fail. After all it is only wires wrapped around an iron core.<br /><br />Only reason I can think of is overheating the engine causes it to short out OR bad stator design (cheapo wire/insulation) which leads to overheating and shorting out.<br /><br />Ken
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: stator scams?

Like an ECU in autos, stuff under the flywheel of an outboard can be replaced by apprentice level wrenches without much training. Profit on labor charges goes waaaay up.<br /><br />Further, not many customers can look at the old one and have any idea whether it needed changing or not.<br /><br />That may mean something and it may not. I suspect that in some shops it does make a difference when they have no clue as to what is really needed, if anything.<br /><br />When Mercedes wrenches want to change something on my MLs, they take me to the vehicle and show me what is wrong with diagnostic equipment or eyeball before they ask if I will okay the replacement. If Outboard shops did that they would be trusted a lot more.
 

P.V.

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Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
452
Re: stator scams?

I think you should remember, Mercury is notorious for stating in their troubleshooting to... "Replace the suspect part with a known good part....." . How's that for just shot in the dark troubleshooting?? And it would be fair to say that some manufacturers have better componants than others, what you and I would say is making parts using Ninetendo technology versus NASA technology!! Mercury stators are more suspect than say ...Yamaha's, but then perhaps Yamaha's are more pricy??? BTW, stators do more than just charge your battery. They create the A/C voltage that's stored in the switch box/pack and then used to create spark. Some have low speed windings and high speed windings while others may have additional coils for timing advance. Stator failure may create switchbox failures and switch boxes may cause stator failures, hooking up your battery backwards may cause more than just charging circuit failures.... Blah, blah, blah..... most, not all bad stators can usually be found to be bad by doing cranking and ohm tests BUT some may just need to be changed because you've already done all the other checks and parts replacment and the #*^&'n motor STILL runs like crap!!! If you have ever screw'd around with a FORCE ignition system you'll know how frustrating it is to own one and have to attempt to work on one. I asasure you, no mechanic likes telling a customer that he's check'd everything out and it appears to be a _______ and yet now it appears to be something different! No boat shop, in the height of the season (or otherwise) wants to screw around with frustrating problems like that. Mechanics need to get on to the next impatient customer !!! Why are they impatient? Cause the mechanic can't fix a "simple 1 hour project" that's now taking 5 hours... Now all the other jobs are being push'd further behind because of the stator problem. Is their any light at the end of this tunnell??? And I'll tell you this, my shop no longer works on L-drives, partly because of their screw'd up ignition systems. Costly in price and in excessive labor in attempting to repair them (and keeping the customer happy!!). Mercury no longer makes the ignition parts. You must call the manufacturing vendor to ask for advise as to why the troubleshooting procedures don't apply to the motor you are working on and why after parts replacement of "bad/suspect" componants, the system still does not work correctly!!!! Frustrating for all parties concern'd!!!!
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: stator scams?

hello<br /> I agree with P.V.<br /> I will no longer work on mercs older than about 1985, I wont work on a force and I dont work on anything older than 1990 without the express written consent and foreknowledge from the customer that parts and labor will be way more than the motor is worth. period. and once we start we dont stop till its fixed regardless of cost. here in our salt pond old motors go away.<br /> anyway to the stator issue. I have never seen a bad one on a suzuki. a few on yammis. hundreds of merc and merc/force's. maybe thousands since the late eighties. the red stator kit is now about 500 dollars. I think the revision is around a26. means over 26 changes to a part the engineers swear is not a problem.the v6 OMC will sometimes smoke a stator but its rare. the hard ones are the stator problems that test fine but after an hour of running the CD charge coil output voltage starts falling below about 60-70 volts. below that spark becomes iffy and plugs foul but by the time its back to the shop it works fine. if you have a constant fouling problem and the motor is in good shape and everything else is eliminated take it for a 3 hour tour with the peak reading meter attached to the charge coil wires.<br /> so yes there are some unscrupulous techs. I happen not to be one as I have always prided myself on fix it once fix it right and solve the problem before buying parts. one of the marinas I contract for loves to switch parts. I use that as a last resort. sometimes you can end up with two bad parts :) :) .,<br /> good luck and keep posting
 
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