Steering at the helm...

ArkBoater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 12, 2007
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140
Hey gang. I'm still trying to figure out my steering issue. Does someone have a diagram of how a rack steering system works at the helm where it connects to the wheel? This is my first boat so I'm not sure how it all connects and works up there so I just want to check everything at that end of the cable. When looking under the dash, it almost looks like a large spring :redface: at the wheel (when i say wheel, remember I'm looking at the wheel from under the dash on the inside.) Thanks gang! ;)

I'll try to get pictures of it tonight and post it just so you'll know what I'm looking at. :redface:
 

ArkBoater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 12, 2007
Messages
140
Re: Steering at the helm...

The problem I'm having is that steering my boat is easy to the left when under power (takes one hand to turn) but turning to the right is a PAIN (2 hands working hard to turn it). I've adjusted the tab and it was no help. I've done everything short of putting a new cable on there and it's still this way. The steering isn't bad out of the water (although I do detect a little bit more resistance when turning to the right vs. turning to the left.) I'm about to the point of getting a new cable. Would it be wise to go ahead and upgrade to a rotary system instead of the rack? I think it would work much better but what do ya'll think? :confused: Has anyone with this problem made the switch? Thanks again!!

Jared
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
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Re: Steering at the helm...

The cable moves inside the sheath through its entire length so steering harder one direction than the other does not point to a cable problem in my view. If this is an outboard, I'd check the end of the cable where it goes through the tilt tube. Corrosion in that area can bind up the steering. If this is an I/O you could have a similar issue at the outdrive. I feel the helm itself and the cable are not the issue and would not replace the cable until you've proven it's actually bad. Disconnect the steering link at the engine. Now turn the wheel each direction. If it moves freely, the cable is not the issue. Then pivot the engine each direction. If it is tight, you have a binding pivot bushing. Always isolate the problem before you start throwing parts at the issue.
 

ArkBoater

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Messages
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Re: Steering at the helm...

The cable moves inside the sheath through its entire length so steering harder one direction than the other does not point to a cable problem in my view. If this is an outboard, I'd check the end of the cable where it goes through the tilt tube. Corrosion in that area can bind up the steering. If this is an I/O you could have a similar issue at the outdrive. I feel the helm itself and the cable are not the issue and would not replace the cable until you've proven it's actually bad. Disconnect the steering link at the engine. Now turn the wheel each direction. If it moves freely, the cable is not the issue. Then pivot the engine each direction. If it is tight, you have a binding pivot bushing. Always isolate the problem before you start throwing parts at the issue.

It is an I/O and I took the cable out of the tube and cleaned and re-greased it last year so that's not the problem. But I'll do what you recomended otherwise. Thanks ST.

ST, so how much is envolved with replacing a pivot bushing if that is indeed the problem? Again, this is my first boat so all this stuff is new to me. Thanks for the help.
 

Bondo

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Re: Steering at the helm...

Ayuh,..
It doesn't sound like a Helm or Cable problem,...

I'd sooner think it's operator trim error, or a need for a Different Prop...
 

ArkBoater

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Re: Steering at the helm...

Ayuh,..
It doesn't sound like a Helm or Cable problem,...

I'd sooner think it's operator trim error, or a need for a Different Prop...

I'm constantly playing with the trim when under way to correct it and it's never helped any. Also, I've adjusted the trim tab trying to fix it and it didn't help.

So Prop huh. I've been asking what?s wrong on here and other boating forums for a while now and that's the first I've heard mention that is could be a prop. So would it be a pitch problem or something like that? That would make sense though. I mean that would explain why it is only hard to turn right when in the water and under power. Also, the previous owner said that the steering has been harder to the right than left for a long time but they have replaced the cable (a few years ago) and then everything works fine out of water. More info on why you think it could be the prop would be great! I don't have any manual for my boat so I don't know what the stock prop is or would be and I don't know if it's ever been changed. Thanks Bond!!

Boat Specs: It's a 17' bowrider with a Mercruiser 3.0l Alpha one.
 

Bondo

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Re: Steering at the helm...

Ayuh,...

It Could Be,..
Maybe you have a Big eared prop,+ need something different,...
Maybe there's something amiss with the boat's Bottom,....
Maybe the lower unit skeg is Bent,...
Maybe you're not trimming out Enough,...
Maybe you're trimming out Too Far,...
Maybe your hull isn't Balanced,...
Maybe the hull wasn't properly fitted with the drive in the 1st place,...
Maybe the drive is out of Square,...
Maybe the Keel isn't Square,...

There's Lots,+ Lots of Maybes,.... I don't know which 1 applies to your boat....
 

ArkBoater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 12, 2007
Messages
140
Re: Steering at the helm...

Ayuh,...

It Could Be,..
Maybe you have a Big eared prop,+ need something different,...
Maybe there's something amiss with the boat's Bottom,....
Maybe the lower unit skeg is Bent,...
Maybe you're not trimming out Enough,...
Maybe you're trimming out Too Far,...
Maybe your hull isn't Balanced,...
Maybe the hull wasn't properly fitted with the drive in the 1st place,...
Maybe the drive is out of Square,...
Maybe the Keel isn't Square,...

There's Lots,+ Lots of Maybes,.... I don't know which 1 applies to your boat....


Well crap. haha :redface:



I do have one quick question I was just wondering about.

when i am turning the wheel clockwise (to turn right), does it pull or push on the steering cable? Just wondering. I'm trying to go through all this in my mind and think of possible problems. Thanks again for the help bond!
 

Silvertip

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Messages
28,771
Re: Steering at the helm...

My bushing comment pertains to an outboard. Whole different deal with an I/O. See how important it is to include pertinent info like "I removed the cable and greased it so I know that's not the problem"!
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
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May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Steering at the helm...

In all the I/O's I have driven without power steering it has always been harder to turn against the torque of the engine while under power. Like Bondo mentioned, there can be many things. I also agree that it doesn't sound like a cable. What size engine do you have? Bigger the engine = more torque. If you have a V8, you may want to consider putting power steering on it.
 

ArkBoater

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Jun 12, 2007
Messages
140
Re: Steering at the helm...

My bushing comment pertains to an outboard. Whole different deal with an I/O. See how important it is to include pertinent info like "I removed the cable and greased it so I know that's not the problem"!

Well considering I was asking "specific" questions like...."how does the steering system at the helm work" and also asking about the two different steering systems (rack vs rotary) I didn't think I needed to put that. ;) If I would have been asking people to diagnose my problem, I would have asked for it and put all the specs. I have been asking about this for a while now and have done all the easy stuff like greasing the cable in the tube and all that so now I'm down to asking specific questions. ;)
 

ArkBoater

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Messages
140
Re: Steering at the helm...

In all the I/O's I have driven without power steering it has always been harder to turn against the torque of the engine while under power. Like Bondo mentioned, there can be many things. I also agree that it doesn't sound like a cable. What size engine do you have? Bigger the engine = more torque. If you have a V8, you may want to consider putting power steering on it.

Its a mercruiser 3.0l v6. ;)
 

Bondo

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Re: Steering at the helm...

If I would have been asking people to diagnose my problem,
Its a mercruiser 3.0l v6.

Ayuh,... I guess I'm missing something,.. Just like Silvertip....
In post #3, you state your Problem,... Yet offer Absolutely No pertinent Information...


Btw,....
A 3.0l is an I4,... Not a V6....
Sooo,....
What are ya Talkin' About,..??..??
 

ArkBoater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
140
Re: Steering at the helm...

Ayuh,... I guess I'm missing something,.. Just like Silvertip....
In post #3, you state your Problem,... Yet offer Absolutely No pertinent Information...


Btw,....
A 3.0l is an I4,... Not a V6....
Sooo,....
What are ya Talkin' About,..??..??

Sorry, you are right I4, not V6. I didn't want diagnosis. Here are the two questions I asked.

1)Does someone have a diagram of how a rack steering system works at the helm where it connects to the wheel?

2)Would it be wise to go ahead and upgrade to a rotary system instead of the rack?

I just wanted to know how the steering worked at the helm and how a rotary system would be better than a rack. You are right, I did state my problem, but I didn't ask for a resolution. I just wanted to know how these certain areas work so I can look them over and see if somethin is wrong there.

My boat is a Cheetah 1650ls bowrider with a Mercruiser 3.0l I4. It's got an alpha one outdrive.

Seriously though guys, I do appreciate your suggestions on what my problem might be. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on everything. I just didn't think I needed to share all the specs since I was only asking a couple specific questions. But I really do appreciate your help, really. Thanks guys. :redface:
 

reelfishin

Captain
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Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,050
Re: Steering at the helm...

Sorry, you are right V4, not V6. I didn't want diagnosis. Here are the two questions I asked.

1)Does someone have a diagram of how a rack steering system works at the helm where it connects to the wheel? :redface:

http://www.downloadingfiles.co.uk/teleflexfiles/library/instructionmanuals/IS-SH5210_15.PDF

There are several variations of rack steering, the link above is for Teleflex style steering. The way the rack, cable and pinion shaft attach or install varies by brand. Some rack systems require the steering or pinion shaft to be removed out the top, some rack assemblies bolt onto the pinion assembly.
I have also seen two types of cable attachments, those with a nut at the end of the cable rod, and those with a c clip.

2)Would it be wise to go ahead and upgrade to a rotary system instead of the rack? :redface:

The rotary system is simpler and easier to work with, but functionally there's not much difference once installed. If your rack isn't bad, I'd leave it.
Durability wise, I've always felt that a rack system was a bit beefier.
With a rotary system, the cable itself wears against the main gear, on a rack, the cable is inside of the rack gear, thus only the helm itself sees any direct wear. The gear to gear design of a rack system will most likely stand up to more force if well maintained and greased.
Rotary style cables are easier to change, as all you need to do is disconnect the cable housing from the helm and pull out the cable while turning the wheel, some rack systems require either removing the rack or pinion assemblies or crawling up under the dash to disconnect the end of the cable, and then many boats still won't have the clearance to pull the cable out.
As a rule of thumb, replacing a rack cable means removing the helm from the dash where as on a rotary, you just slide the cable in and out.

I just wanted to know how the steering worked at the helm and how a rotary system would be better than a rack. You are right, I did state my problem, but I didn't ask for a resolution. I just wanted to know how these certain areas work so I can look them over and see if somethin is wrong there.

My boat is a Cheetah 1650ls bowrider with a Mercruiser 3.0l V4. It's got an alpha one outdrive.:redface:
The Mercury 3.0L engine is not a V4, its an Inline 4 cylinder, or as referred to as an I4.

Seriously though guys, I do appreciate your suggestions on what my problem might be. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on everything. I just didn't think I needed to share all the specs since I was only asking a couple specific questions. But I really do appreciate your help, really. Thanks guys. :redface:

If you have a steering pull or torque issue, then you need to solve that first.
If the steering doesn't show the same symptoms while at rest with the engine off, then the problem is not the cable or helm.
If you feel the helm may be in need of maintenance or lube, then by all means do it, but its probably not the cause of the issue. Most all cable steering systems will turn harder when the cable is pushing vs. pulling.

You could have any number of issues causing your steering problems.
(Bent skeg, bad or worn torque tab/annode, motor not mounted center or square, or even a prop that is causing the problem. I've had large bladed props create all sorts of torque steer and hard steering in the past).
 

ArkBoater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: Steering at the helm...

Thanks so much Reel!!

And you must have caught me on the V4 thing right before I edited it. :D


So,
  1. Bent skeg
  2. Bad or worn torque tab/annode
  3. Motor not mounted center or square
  4. Prop that is causing the problem.



  1. I'll check the skeg, haven't looked to see if it's bent although i don't think it is, but I'll check it tomorrow.
  2. I can eliminate this one as the tab is in perfect condition.
  3. Hmm, hope this is not it, but I will check it tomorrow too.
  4. How do I check that? Is there a way? :confused:

Thanks again everyone! :D
 

reelfishin

Captain
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Mar 19, 2007
Messages
3,050
Re: Steering at the helm...

The reason I say prop is that I went round and round last summer with a buddies boat that had so much torque steer you had to wedge your knee against the steering to go straight. What I hadn't known was that he had just swapped out the prop at the time and added one of those hydrofoil fins at the same time. I tossed the hydrofoil and it got a bit better but was still super hard to turn right. I finally had his motor off last fall to do some other repairs, when I hung the motor and was ready for a test drive, I didn't have his prop, so I used one of mine. The pull was gone, the boat handled great. I brought the boat home, put my prop back on my boat and let it sit, he came and got it and put his prop back on when he got it home. I drove it a few weeks later and the pull was back. My prop was a narrow bladed performance prop and his a wide bladed oem aluminum prop. The difference between the two props was unbelievable, both gave the same top RPM but my 4 blade Stainless prop worked so much better and would jump out of the hole fast, his would drop down and lag when taking off, and would pull to the left even at idle.
He had owned the boat for years, spent a ton of cash trying to fix the problem and it turned out to be the prop. I think it was the style of blade vs. motor depth or something that made the difference. While that was on a 70hp outboard, I suppose an I/O could react the same, either way its worth a try.

Sometimes torque steering can be tough to track down and is often a matter of trial and error.
You will have to figure out when it starts to become noticeable, at what speed and RPM, is it there at idle, is it just a matter of the steering being harder in one direction than the other or does the boat actually self steer due to engine torque. (On his, with the oem prop, the boats wheel would turn rapidly to the left the instant the motor started, if you didn't have hold of the wheel it would slam to the steering limit left, forget any chance of relaxing while underway).
You will need to figure out if its a problem that is amplified by engine torque or caused by it. It could very well be caused by several different things as well.
 

ArkBoater

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
140
Re: Steering at the helm...

The reason I say prop is that I went round and round last summer with a buddies boat that had so much torque steer you had to wedge your knee against the steering to go straight. What I hadn't known was that he had just swapped out the prop at the time and added one of those hydrofoil fins at the same time. I tossed the hydrofoil and it got a bit better but was still super hard to turn right. I finally had his motor off last fall to do some other repairs, when I hung the motor and was ready for a test drive, I didn't have his prop, so I used one of mine. The pull was gone, the boat handled great. I brought the boat home, put my prop back on my boat and let it sit, he came and got it and put his prop back on when he got it home. I drove it a few weeks later and the pull was back. My prop was a narrow bladed performance prop and his a wide bladed oem aluminum prop. The difference between the two props was unbelievable, both gave the same top RPM but my 4 blade Stainless prop worked so much better and would jump out of the hole fast, his would drop down and lag when taking off, and would pull to the left even at idle.
He had owned the boat for years, spent a ton of cash trying to fix the problem and it turned out to be the prop. I think it was the style of blade vs. motor depth or something that made the difference. While that was on a 70hp outboard, I suppose an I/O could react the same, either way its worth a try.

Sometimes torque steering can be tough to track down and is often a matter of trial and error.
You will have to figure out when it starts to become noticeable, at what speed and RPM, is it there at idle, is it just a matter of the steering being harder in one direction than the other or does the boat actually self steer due to engine torque. (On his, with the oem prop, the boats wheel would turn rapidly to the left the instant the motor started, if you didn't have hold of the wheel it would slam to the steering limit left, forget any chance of relaxing while underway).
You will need to figure out if its a problem that is amplified by engine torque or caused by it. It could very well be caused by several different things as well.


Hmm. Sounds like it may be it...but maybe not. My boat tracks perfectly straight when at idle and well, at any speed. There is no pull one direction or the other. I may have found the problem when I was out messing with it Saturday. I was checking the cable and I don't know how I never noticed this before. the cable is sitting in the bottom of the side storage area (the little shelf about 1/2 up the wall in bow riders. anyway, right at about the back seat it goes from the bottom of the storage all the way to the top of the wall (about a foot in height) then it stays at the top and then drops back down and goes to the tilt tube. It looks like the cable is too long to me. I didn't take any pictures, but I will try to get my wife to run out there and snap a couple to better explain what I'm saying. There are no sharp bends or turns in the cable, but there are about 3 or so unnecessary curves in the cable.
 
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