strange coil repair 3 hp lightwin

[Michawilden]

I have an evinrude 3 hp lightwin in to repair for a friend of mine, He said that it had a problem with the ignition. Only one cilinder had spark. Since he had no clue of the history of the outboard i have pulled the flywheel to inspect the coils and point since these are likely to fail.
As I removed the lower cowling, I already noticed something strange. The spark plug wires did not come from under the timing plate but came from an extarnal coil.

Both spark plugs had an indivual coil mounted on both sides of the powerhead under the tank. Under the flywheel, the original coils where present but stripped down to the primary coil. Using the good primary coil and the external coil the engine could produce a healthy spark.

In the picture I had removed the other primary coil to see how the wiring was arranged. I have never seen this sort of repair and just wanted to share it with you guys.
It is kind of an hillbilly solution but here in the Netherlands one original coil costs 30 euro, around 35 dollars so this is a much cheaper way to repair your motor is you have some spare coils lying around.

 

[lindy46]

Interesting! The larger motors made in the mid-70's had that kind of setup with a single charger coil under the flywheel and the ignition coils mounted outside. Never seen it on a 3hp.

 

[Chinewalker]

I would ditch all that garbage and put it back to original. It's not like coils are expensive or hard to find.

 

[Michawilden]

As I said, It is not my motor. If it is a nice runner I will try to convince the owner to change to the original ignition. I have not started it yet so I don't know how it runs. I suspect it needs a new waterpump but the pump was repaired in a weird way.

I think the screw head broke off and this kind of plug was installed to keep the pump houding down? I decided to keep it like this and first try to get it running, If it is faulty, I will open it up.

 

[racerone]

How many magnets in the flywheel ?

 

[gm280]

I own a '76 40HP with the excited coil under the flywheel but the actual spark coils are mounted on the sides of the head section out from under the flywheel. So maybe it isn't so unusual after all and it was made that way. :noidea: If it does run and you can fix it, I think you will need to fix the water pump assembly. Just a guess there. JMHO!

 

[HighTrim]

Well, never seen that before!

 

[Michawilden]

It has two charging coils and two external coils. I knew that younger engines also have coils outside the flywheel so I understand why the previous owner tried to fix it like this.
The engine turned out to be a strong runner with this ignition. Starts up easily and has got a very low idling speed when warmed up. The waterpump was sufficient to cool it enough.
The owner is more collector than sailer so he was fine with this ignition and the waterpump. He now has a nice running engine for 30 euro. To bad winter is coming, he lives in Amsterdam where it must be a lot of fun to sail through the canals with such an engine.

He gave me an other engine to fix, A 5.5 hp evinrude fisherman from 1957. The engine seems to run on 1 or two cilinders intermittedly. The coils seem fairly new, condensors have the red cap and the points are in good condition. Spark wires are still original. Can these cause the problem?

 

[Chinewalker]

Clean and gap the points.

 

[steelespike]

There wires could cause trouble these need to be solid core wires.
The spark plug ends could be corroded and the insulation could be broken down.

 

[Michawilden]

Already cleaned and gapped the points by using a volt meter and the marks on the flywheel/ base plate. i'm going to buy new spark plug wires today and see if this makes the difference. Measurements on the coils and condensers gave no faulty readings so my money is on the wires. I will keep you guys posted.

 

[Michawilden]

Update. When idling, the 5.5hp runs on two cilinders. When i twist the throttle, it starts to run on one cilinder. The upper cilinder cuts out. This happens about where the cam touches the roller of the carb. Here, the top cilinder sparks intermittedly. From this point to wot, it runs on the lower cilinder.
Now the weird part, when I push the cam down, he runs on both cilinders. So If I push the armature plate down on the front if the engine, he runs perfectly fine. The armature plate has minimal free play. Has anybody even encountered such a problem before? Could it still be caused bu the old plug wires? The scooter shop did not have the wires in store so I have to wait a week for the spark plug wires.

 

[Michawilden]

I will post a video of the problem tomorrow. I filmed what happened so you guys can see what I mean.

 

[gm280]

Not seeing your problem with pictures or video, it sounds like when the timing plate moves up it could be shorting something and you lose top cylinder spark. So new wires aren't going to fix that problem. I would look over the points and everything under the flywheel again with a fine tooth comb this time. JMHO!

 

[Michawilden]

I hyjacked my own thread here, The evinrude 3 hp runs and cools fine. I was talking about antother engine, a 1957 evinrude 5.5 hp. You can se eit in the picture below:

The problem can be seen in the link. If i twist the throttle from idle to wot, the upper cilinder just cuts out at 1/4 gas. Only if I push the armature plate, it gives spark.

I will pull the fly wheel to see if both points open up at more throttle. I can't seem to reason why it shorts out at wot but doesn't at idle.

Note that the armature plate has minimal free play, It isn't loose or anything.

 

[Chinewalker]

Says video is private. My guess would be you have a spark plug wire grounding out against the block when the mag plate is turned.

 

[Michawilden]

Changed the video to public. I inspected the points and the armature plate but did not find anything suspicious. Points open up nicely. I would still suspect the wires. But it doens't make sense that when I push the armature plate down a little, the spark wire suddenly doesn't ground out.

 

[Greg O.]

Are the coils set close enough to the flywheel? Maybe when you move the armature plate, they move close enough to make a better charge. Or a wire is rubbing something somewhere shorting out. Sounds like something is out of adjustment, or a wire shorting out. Very nice motor otherwise.

 

[oldboat1]

might make sure the plug wire to coil connection is secure. or plug wire due for replacement. Abrasion at clamp under the plate, grounding wire (shorting, like Chinewalker suggests)? Might try carefully reaching up and moving the wire a little when motor is acting up, and see if spark restored.

 

[Michawilden]

Tried moving the coils closer, or in other positions. This did not change anything. Also tried another coil, also did not change anything. Still runs on 1 cylinder at wot and runs on two when I push the armature plate down. If I push the armature plate on the starboard side, it also goes on two cylinders. Wobbled around with the plug cables but this did not seem to have influence. New cables will be arriving tuesday so than I can change them but I suspect this will not make a difference.
Also measured grounding in the points but didn't find anything weird. There is a chance that i can lend another armature plate. Will keep you posted