Swamping and shorting batteries

SiggiJo

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 4, 2005
Messages
82
Being that salt water conducts electricity, do batteries short out quickly when submerged by seawater? <br /><br />I´m trying to decide on location for my batteries.<br />I have been reading up on boat swampings & sinkings and since outboard boats usually go down stern first, I thought I would place them in the bow in an elevated position - the idea being that they would be out of the water for as long as possible, giving my two 1500 gph bilge pumps located on the floor in the stern, a chance to rapidly empty the boat, should i get swamped over the stern or side.<br /><br />But the bow is a rough place for batteries as they get bashed around more then they should. So I could probably accommodate them under the seats, which - location wise - is probably the best place and close to the boat´s center of gravity. But that means batteries and cables will be submerged quickly should more than just a few inches of water enter the boat - hence my question.<br /><br />Small boats fill up and sink a lot quicker than larger ones, and since mine is only 14' I decided to be over generous on bilge pump capacity, but then of course I need sufficient battery power to put it to use if needed. My floor is sealed but un-fomed and the hull cavity acts as a watertight float so I have installed another 1100 gph automatic pump there. There are a few other low-drain electrical gizmos installed, but I´m mostly thinking about being able to pump a lot of water quickly should the worst scenario happen, so I need to go with two batteries. Thanks.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

I think you are worrying about a non-issue. If your 14 footer gets swamped over the rear, the front will be full of water about 15 seconds later. The benefit of having the battery(s) in front, or at least farther forward, is better weight distribution which would likely provide less chance of swamping in the first place. Secondly, if any part of the boat is actually under water, two 1500 gph pumps won't empty the boat until they pump the lake dry. Different story if you simply take a little water over the stern.
 

crab bait

Captain
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Feb 5, 2002
Messages
3,831
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

good question.. <br /><br />i'd say no.. terminals are to far apart.. an 12volts doesn't have very much 'snap' to jump across.. <br /><br />i'd look into a maintenance free/sealed batteries, tho..
 

imported_Curmudgeon

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 29, 2004
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Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

Wow, 4100 gph from a 14' boat! The term "overkill" comes to mind very quickly.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
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Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

Put the batteries in a battery box and locate where you want the weight. Strap down the top of the battery boxes and as long as the boat is open side up the battery box is water tight.
 

crab bait

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Feb 5, 2002
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3,831
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

yeah, they're tite.. especially where the cables enter the box..
 

SiggiJo

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 4, 2005
Messages
82
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

I don´t see how I could have a watertight battery box - probably not a good idea in the first place as they emit fumes.<br /><br />What I mean is do the batteries short out if temporarily covered in seawater?<br /><br />And as far as the "overkill" goes, this has long been weakness of mine - but when was the last time you heard anyone complaining about too much power - bilge pumps included????
 

imported_Curmudgeon

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 29, 2004
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496
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

I would think re-evaluating where you're taking that 14' boat would be more important that where to put batteries if you think you need that much bilge pumping capacity. Just a thought since I'm not going out with ya. And, true enough, one rarely hears concerns about too much power, but this one may qualify.
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

No matter where you put the batts or what kind of box they are in, if you have enough water in your 14-ft boat to hit the batt terminals, you have far greater issues to deal with than the batts. I like Smoke and Boatist ideas of looking at weight distribution. Crab Bait's advise about a sealed maint-free batt is also good, I like the AGM batts.<br /><br />Fwiw, the capacity of 2 of the 3 bilge pumps on my boat will keep up with incoming water from the largest thru-hull (1-1/2 in) if knocked completely off. Indeed, it is a comforting feeling.
 

SiggiJo

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
82
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

Good weight distribution is exactly what I am trying to achieve by not having the batteries in the back, but if I place them under the seats, they will be closer to boat´s center of gravity.<br /><br />Having extra large bilgepumps does not mean that I plan to use them much- only a peace of mind should I somehow get cought out, and I am not talking about being completely swamped but more of the odd rouge wave spilling a few inches of seawater that you want to get rid of in a hurry.<br /><br />If I put them under the lounge seats, I´ll have to partially sink them into the floor, so the terminals will only be about 6" above the floor, so that´s why I´m curious if anyone knows this for sure.
 

Paul Moir

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Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

I've seen (regular) batteries submerged and bubbling on swamped boats, but I can't for the life of me remember if they needed to be replaced after the sinking. I don't think so, but only because I think I would have remembered that.<br />But if you're one to overdo things, you should be looking at AGM batteries anyway. With them electrolyte contamination is not going to be an issue. <br />I ran a quick calculation on some typical battery posts and really the worst resistance you should see in seawater would be around 100 ohms. Anything you can do to block or even partially block the "line of sight" between the terminals will help greatly. Even some plastic caps over the posts will make a big difference. The lenght of the path the electricity must take through the water and the surface area of conductor (post) exposed to the water are the significant & controllable factors.
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

NorthStar says their AGM batts work submerged. I've several of those batts but haven't tried it. And no, don't even ask me Crab Bait, becasue I'm not going to try it, either.<br /> :)
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
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Apr 22, 2002
Messages
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Re: Swamping and shorting batteries

I guess I have the only water tight battery boxes. Tops of my batteries boxes extend below the top of the bottom portion and trap air to keep water from getting in. If that not good enough you could mount upside down and put the lid on the bottom. That would for sure keep the top of the battery dry. Take an up side down glass and push it down in a sink of water and you will see it does not fill with water.
 
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