T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

[Seakindly]

I have heard that major changes have been made to these motors.<br /><br />Does anyone have any details to share?<br /><br />Thanks

 

[JB]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Not exactly an outboard trouble, SK.<br /><br />Moving to General Outboard.

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Gee JB, no moss growin on your keyboard.<br />Maybe you should delete this one?<br />Thanks

 

[Forktail]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

I have heard that major changes have been made to these motors.

What exactly have you heard?<br /><br />This outboard has remained practically unchanged for over 20 years....and for a good reason. It's flawless, IMO.<br /><br />I'm not aware of any changes, but I'd be interested in knowing about them if there are any. If there are in fact changes, they would be emissions related.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Hate to sound stupid here, but what brand are we talking about?

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

WillyBWright -- not a stupid question at all. I had posted this in YAMAHA REPAIR FORUM, AND JB moved it here, cause it wasn't a repair issue. While he was doin that, I posted the same topic, but with Yamaha in the title, for this forum. I posted in the Yamaha forum because I wanted to increase the odds that a Yamaha expert would see the post.<br /><br />Forktail-- I am really glad that you found this discussion. In my research on high thrust kickers, I have read all of your posts about same.<br />I have learned a ton, and am now convinced that the T9.9 is the right tool for the job. I too, was surprised to hear of major changes, as I knew that this motor has not changed much in 20 years.<br /><br />A highly regarded local yamaha mechanic says that the changes are major -- even a different block, but he could not be specific as he doesn't have the time in the busy season for the educational update. He says he will not get them in until September, cause of the changes.<br /><br />Forktail -- is the shift rod stainless on the T9.9?<br />I HAVE A 1994 SALTWATER SERIES 150,and I know that Yamaha went stainless on my 150 about 92 or 93. I became a yamaha guy when I bought my current used boat last fall. I have owned many 70's and 80's Evinrudes. Forktail -- just for laughs, look at my SAILMASTER post in the OMC repair forum.

 

[Forktail]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

I'll try to contact Yamaha about any changes.<br /><br />I currently own four of these T9.9 outboards and run them on my salmon trollers. Most of these boats are 22-24' custom aluminum's used in the salt. One of them is their first year model (1983 I believe), and it must have 5-6 thousand hours on it. Never a problem. The T8 is supposed to be excellent too, but I couldn't force myself to give up such a sure thing when I purchased my newer T9.9's.<br /><br />As for the shift rod....I really don't know if it's stainless. They are painted, but that doesn't mean they aren't stainless. I've never seen one corroded or fail. IMO, not a concern.<br /><br />If I could improve this model, I'd add a little hydraulic tilt, a fresh water flush, and make a 30" shaft. I love the tiller handle.<br /><br />Hope they keep the block, but they've never made a bad outboard IMO, so if they change the block I'm sure it will be a good one.

 

[Forktail]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Seakindly, looks like you're right....the engine will change.<br /><br />It'll be going from the 14.2 ci displacement to the 19.7 ci with a little bit different compression. 10 amp charging will be standard on all the 9.9's. It'll still have a carburetor. Nothing else will change much.<br /><br />BTW, the 19.7 ci is the same engine they've used on their 15 hp. It's a cold-blooded sob, but still a good one.

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Forktail -- thanks for the info and for verifing what I was told by the Yamaha mechanic/dealer that was recommended to me. It is good to know that he wasn't just feeding me a line so that I would order a 2005 from him,instead of buying a 2004 from a different dealer (he had none left). However,I am still a bit gun-shy about buying the first model year of anything, even a Yamaha T9.9.<br />Would you buy the '04 for 2300,or the '05 for 2400?<br /><br />Why are they changing it?? 20 year track record and all.<br /><br />33% more displacement is a big deal, and it sounds like a real improvement. I guess this will give more thrust at lower rpm's?? I was reading the clymer manual, today, and it says on pg 86 that the T9.9 has a max of 8hp at 5000 rpm's. Is this correct?? Will the gear ratio remain the same in '05?<br /><br />I tried to connect with Yamaha customer service yesterday, and I was on speakerphone/hold for about 3hrs to no avail. No info on 2005 T9.9 on their website.<br /><br />Oh, and what do you mean by "it's a cold-blooded sob"?? Is that anything like a swiss watch?

 

[Forktail]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

I would definitely try to pick up that '04.<br /><br />I own a F15 mounted on a Lund. My kids use it on our small lake we live on. I hate to admit it, but of all the Yamaha's I own (lots), this one is my least favorite. After only an hour of use, I had to take it in for a crankshaft seal replacement. Probably a fluke, but that's more of a repair than all four of my T9.9's ever had...combined. Plus it starts hard and doesn't stay running in the colder temps until it's warmed up. Once it warms up it's perfect though. That might not be a concern where you live. It's loud too, which is a disadvantage to me because I take it hunting.<br /><br />I'm not sure why they're changing the "Swiss watch" to the 15's block. Probably emissions related, or they want to simplify their product line. Also I think the T8 has stolen some sales from the T9.9. In fact I would look at the T8 before the new '05 T9.9. It's a gem too.<br /><br />I don't know what Clymer says about the T9.9's HP, but ICOMIA and the MMA allow a +-10% deviation in the rating. So the lowest the T9.9 could officially go would be about 9 HP. It has plenty of power, and even more impressive thrust. Again, I use them on my 22-24' aluminum trollers, and they'll push them along almost 10 knots.<br /><br />I guess you really couldn't go wrong with either one. But IMO, you'd enjoy the '04 T9.9 more.

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Forktail -- thanks for your input. Do you think the cold-blooded nature of your F15 is characteristic of this particular block, or isolated to your individual motor? Poor performance in cold weather would be very bad for me.<br /><br />I thought about the T8, but I'd rather have the extra balls of the T9.9 for when the chips are down and the chit hits the fan.<br /><br />I think that spec from the Clymer manual is just another Clymer error. Certainly not the only one to be found.<br /><br />Still a few leftover 2004 T9.9EXHC's around. Do you think $2400 is a good price? Maybe I can do a little better on the '04 price when the new,improved T9.9 is available.<br /><br />Forktail -- your knowledge and experience have been invaluable, and I am very grateful for your willingness to share it.

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

"It'll be going from the 14.2 ci displacement to the 19.7 ci"<br /><br />So how much heavier will it be? 12-15lbs be my guess............<br /><br />Something to consider!

 

[Forktail]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

My service man has told me that the cold-blooded nature of the F15 is very common of this model, not just on mine. Don't get me wrong...it's not the end of the world, but the '04 T9.9 would be better.<br /><br />The T8 has some balls. But again if you can pick up an '04 T9.9, you'll be happier. This is one of the most proven outboards ever made (20+ years). $2400 is about the going price, nothing great. You might try to get a break since it's last year's model. I doubt the new T9.9 will be cheaper.

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Forktail, thanks again for your input.<br /><br />What year is your F15?? <br /><br />I am gonna have to find out more about the '05 model, before I pull the trigger on an '04.<br />Yamaha must be under great pressure on the emissions front to discontinue such a time-tested block in exchange for a problematic one. Hopefully, they have the cold-blooded issue under control, by now. Wouldn't the area under the power curve across the full range of rpm's be greater for the 15 block??<br /><br />I will try again tomorrow to contact Yamaha customer service.<br /><br />Forktail, you have much better connections with Yamaha than I do. Please keep me/us posted if you hear any more of this.<br /><br />Thanks very much.

 

[Forktail]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

My F15 is a '03. It's not problematic, just cold-blooded. In other words, it starts fine but it does not want to stay running or idle very well until it's completely warmed up. If you put it into gear before she's ready, it will stall. It usually requires fussing with the choke and high revving it until it's warm. Then it's perfect and she'll idle all day without a sputter. My other small 4-strokes aren't this cold-blooded.<br /><br />

Wouldn't the area under the power curve across the full range of rpm's be greater for the 15 block??

You're talking about "total work". In general you are correct that more displacement can do more work from A to B, but this isn't always the case. Remember, the new T9.9 will be a de-tuned F15...probably mostly due to different compression, carburetion, and max RPM. It can only have a +-10% deviation in its rating. Torque X RPM/5252 = HP. So if the torque is more on the new one, it must reduce its RPM to maintain the HP limit. But it is likely that the F15 block, even when detuned, produces flatter torque over a wider RPM range. Yes, that will do more work.

 

[ivar]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Forktail,<br />I'd think a little tweaking on the fuel screw would help on your F15 , sounds to me like its set a little on the lean side.

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

Luna Sea -- Today, I found out from Yamaha that the 2005 T9.9 will weigh about 8 pounds more than the 2004 T9.9, due to the new block.<br /><br />I am sure there are both advantages and disadvantages to this, but I don't know yet if the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages in my application.

 

[Seakindly]

Re: T9.9 High Thrust --2004 vs. 2005

quote from Seakindly: <br /><br />Wouldn't the area under the power curve across the full range of rpm's be greater for the 15 block?? <br /><br />Reply quote from Forktail: <br /><br />You're talking about "total work". In general you are correct that more displacement can do more work from A to B, but this isn't always the case. Remember, the new T9.9 will be a de-tuned F15...probably mostly due to different compression, carburetion, and max RPM. It can only have a +-10% deviation in its rating. Torque X RPM/5252 = HP. So if the torque is more on the new one, it must reduce its RPM to maintain the HP limit. But it is likely that the F15 block, even when detuned, produces flatter torque over a wider RPM range. Yes, that will do more work.<br /><br /><br />I thought that I understood this, but now I am confused because, today, Yamaha said that the max rpms on 2005 is gonna increase to 4500-5500 instead of 4000-5000 on the 2004.<br /><br />Also, Forktail, when you say “flatter torque over a wider rpm range”, I take that to mean that the power curve will be flatter or less parabolic, thus a greater area under the curve.<br /><br />I am looking for a good reason why I should buy the new version instead of the tried and true 2004 T9.9. The ability to do more work would be a good reason.