Tell me I’m being too pessimistic!!

QBhoy

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long story short...

my good friend has fallen in love with a boat and after much back and forth has pulled the trigger.
The type of boat won’t mean much to the North American majority but it’s a stunning 1990 princes 286 Rivera
the boat, is easily worth over 20-25k in cast iron sure running order, and he is getting it for 15k....but...

she has been re engined from her original twin VP 571 v8s (5.7 4 barrel) with twin 2012 mercruiser reman with Holley carbs.

On first inspection and knowing she has been in the salt since the new engines I asked him to take a sample of the oil and check in the oil cap hole at the rocker gear for emulsion. Presuming the obvious worst case scenario that the risers and exhaust might be gone.

The starboard was perfect with only a bit of it in the breather hose (Benefit of the doubt given it’s been laid up over last 2 years). The port had a clear sign of cream in the oil cap, rocker gear and perhaps even a sheen on the dip stick.

My worry is that as we all know, once there has been a little water in through the valves...at any given time years after the manifolds have been replaced, the valves can stick at any given time. Only up side is that there is absolutely no sign of any moisture on the plugs at all. These are defo the original plugs since the engines were new. It’s also been filled with antifreeze since laid up.
Having not seen it in person it’s hard to judge, but an engineers report since claims there is nothing of concern and actually states that the Holley carb is known to gather or attract more moisture than usual over a lay up period.

I have my doubts and fear the worst...but told him to go for it. He won’t see past this boat at all. Totally fallen for it. I’m thinking he would always wonder if she would just be ok after a change of manifolds and forever regret it and me telling him to run a mile.
Anyway...it’s at least 5k cheaper than it should be and can afford a new engine if it comes to it.

someone tell me I did the right thing ??
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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His money, (now) his boat. You gave your opinion. He make the decision, it's his problem.

Just as a reference. My 2006 4.3MPI is on original manifolds and only it's second elbows (changed once after new). I'm due to pull them off and check them 'soon'... Yes, saltwater. The only freshwater we have comes out of a tap. :D

BTW, I absolutely HATE holley carbs (Holley anything really)... He should get them OFF and put Edlebrock 1409s on... Before those carb burn the boat to the waterline. (Merc stopped using Holleys in 1977... why? "Sick of boat fires" That quote from a local Merc service rep!)

Chris......

(Any Holley fanboys.... I'm not interested. You'll fail dismally to convince me otherwise.)
 

Scott06

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You’re being too pessimistic ... ok seriously you educated him on potential pitfalls. Even if the engine fails he seems to have a buddy who is handy with a wrench to help him ...
 

QBhoy

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His money, (now) his boat. You gave your opinion. He make the decision, it's his problem.

Just as a reference. My 2006 4.3MPI is on original manifolds and only it's second elbows (changed once after new). I'm due to pull them off and check them 'soon'... Yes, saltwater. The only freshwater we have comes out of a tap. :D

BTW, I absolutely HATE holley carbs (Holley anything really)... He should get them OFF and put Edlebrock 1409s on... Before those carb burn the boat to the waterline. (Merc stopped using Holleys in 1977... why? "Sick of boat fires" That quote from a local Merc service rep!)

Chris......

(Any Holley fanboys.... I'm not interested. You'll fail dismally to convince me otherwise.)

Thanks Chris.

Yeah i was a bit confused at the Holley carbs. It used to have VP 571 in it. You’d think they might use the Rochester off them ? Or would they not fit ?
 

QBhoy

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You’re being too pessimistic ... ok seriously you educated him on potential pitfalls. Even if the engine fails he seems to have a buddy who is handy with a wrench to help him ...

Haha. Yeah. I thought I should just tell him to go for it. At 6k less than the next cheapest model (that was nearly 10 years older)...I figure there is scope for the worst. He just couldn’t see past this boat. Don’t blame him. It’s lovely.
 

Scott Danforth

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Chris....everything man-made fails.....
 

Scott06

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Haha. Yeah. I thought I should just tell him to go for it. At 6k less than the next cheapest model (that was nearly 10 years older)...I figure there is scope for the worst. He just couldn’t see past this boat. Don’t blame him. It’s lovely.

We can’t always get the best deal ever. If it’s a fair deal and good boat, doesn’t have to make 100% financial sense if he enjoys it for years.

This morning my 14 yr old daughter who in the last 2-3 years has learned to drive both our 21 ft bowrider and jet ski quite safely and correct and done the. 8 hr safety license course - says as she is filling the gas tank on the bowrider “I love the way gas smells”. Makes me worry less that I’ve squeezed ever dolllar out of this hobby. I was the same age when I first really got involved with my grandpa maintaining his boat , that was 33 years ago...
 

QBhoy

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We can’t always get the best deal ever. If it’s a fair deal and good boat, doesn’t have to make 100% financial sense if he enjoys it for years.

This morning my 14 yr old daughter who in the last 2-3 years has learned to drive both our 21 ft bowrider and jet ski quite safely and correct and done the. 8 hr safety license course - says as she is filling the gas tank on the bowrider “I love the way gas smells”. Makes me worry less that I’ve squeezed ever dolllar out of this hobby. I was the same age when I first really got involved with my grandpa maintaining his boat , that was 33 years ago...

Things like this make them worth every penny. Can’t even put a price on it even. Exactly the way I feel.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Chris....everything man-made fails.....

Completely in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics, yes.

But some things are built to withstand that law a little less than others. :mad: (this is what the marketing types call 'built-in obsolescence'. And manufacturers who do it need to be whipped and hung out to dry for it!)

Chris......
 
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Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Completely in accordance with the second law of thermodynamics, yes.

But some things are built to withstand that law a little less than others. :mad: (this is what the marketing types call 'built-in obsolescence'. And manufacturers who do it need to be whipped and hung out to dry for it!)

Chris......

its what engineers call "design life" and everything from tongue depressors to q-tips to light bulbs to lawn equipment to vehicles to shoes to boats has a design life.

there is a difference between "design life" and "service life"

light reading on the Phoebus Cartel (why light bulbs only last 1500 hours) https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/dawn-of-electronics/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy

to boats https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boa...52-perspective-of-fiberglass-boat-design-life
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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...light reading on the Phoebus Cartel (why light bulbs only last 1500 hours) https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-histo...ulb-conspiracy...

Familiar with that particular issue. Have a look for a series called "The men who made us..." The third in the series was "The men who made us spend", and one of the first topics they dealt with was the Phoebus Cartel and the light bulb makers.

I just read your write-up on design life. I get it, but what really bugs the living b-jesus out of me is situations like I just had with my mother. Her DVR failed. I opened it up and it was just one single electrolytic capacitor in the power supply. A 50c component fixed it back to new. For 99% of the population, that would have been a $600 machine tossed in the garbage. THAT is an absolute waste and in this era, an incredible insult to the people trying to make changes to be less wasteful and conscious of what we are doing to finite resources.

Chris........
 
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Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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Chris, In my younger days, I used to repair TV's, VCR's etc. My uncle owns an electronics shop, so I would explain the issue, he would send me the schematics, parts, and advice. Normally it was a part under $5, or a broken solder joint, etc.

with todays $50 DVR's it simply does not justify to spend $100 on labor to fix it..... so the $50 DVR gets tossed because a $0.50 part failed and another $50 DVR (from China) gets purchased

I agree with you, however gone are the days someone spent $2500 on a tape deck simply because it was better technology to mechanically flip the tape vs changing directions and shifting the head (reference the 1982 nakamichi dragon tape deck which was about 30% the cost of the average car) ....

today we remove grease zirks because every service point is a negative on consumer reports...... its all about the hype, and marketing, and making todays sweaty-thumb phone-banging buyer happy. its no longer about the quality of the component, its about a yelp rating or consumer reports rating.

todays culture is raised wal-mart, instant download, cheap china sourced carp and doesnt turn their own wrenches, shift their own gears or change their own oil.
 

achris

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with todays $50 DVR's it simply does not justify to spend $100 on labor to fix it..... so the $50 DVR gets tossed because a $0.50 part failed and another $50 DVR (from China) gets purchased..

This isn't some cheap Chinese knockoff. It was over $600 new, and a replacement is even more.

The problem is that at that price, it is worth fixing. But with nasty cheap products flooding the market, the time cost versus replacement cost is skewed. The net result is we are losing people with the skills to fix things. Even worse, as I'm finding out, is shops no longer stock parts for the people who still can and wish to fix things... Nasty vicious circle! And it's really getting to me... Went to buy a new ($50) regulator for my car alternator. Not available. Buying a complete new alternator for $480 is the ONLY option I have. :mad:

Chris....
 

GA_Boater

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Went to buy a new ($50) regulator for my car alternator. Not available. Buying a complete new alternator for $480 is the ONLY option I have.

Only 480 bucks? All my vehicles have the regulator inside the ECU. $480 bucks is cheap!

That's the other problem. So many maintenance issues are built in by designers and bean counters. In my case and Chris's case, combining functions probably saves the car maker a couple of bucks, but the consumer can't afford enough Vaseline to ease the pain. Service with a smile! :mad:

On the DVR cap, these capacitors have been a known problem for like 20 years, so why are they still being used? Oh, they cost 3 cents in quantity vs 4 cents for the good ones. :facepalm:

QBhoy - We have totally hijacked your thread. You need an answer.

You are being under-optimistic. :smile:
 

achris

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Only 480 bucks? All my vehicles have the regulator inside the ECU. $480 bucks is cheap!

It's the Landcruiser with the 6.5T Detroit engine, so no ECU. :D

That's the other problem. So many maintenance issues are built in by designers and bean counters. In my case and Chris's case, combining functions probably saves the car maker a couple of bucks, but the consumer can't afford enough Vaseline to ease the pain. Service with a smile! :mad:

Yep... No lube, ouch!

On the DVR cap, these capacitors have been a known problem for like 20 years, so why are they still being used?

Because size for size, electrolytics offer the best option. All they have to do is use a cap with a voltage rating high enough. Like on a power rail that is 12v, don't use a 16v cap (as they ALWAYS do :facepalm:), use a 25v, or 50v ... And use the highest temperature rating too. Most cheap caps are rated to 85 degrees, but there are 105 degree caps on the market, and the price difference is minimal. As with the different voltage ratings. Just changing those 2 specs, you can expect at least 4 times the life. Cost to the manufacturer, pennies! Customer satisfaction, priceless!

Oh, they cost 3 cents in quantity vs 4 cents for the good ones. :facepalm:

Again, yep. They minimum spec the caps. As you said, an extra cent for a cap that will last more than 5 minutes. The one I pulled was 10uF 16v. The cost to replace THAT one would have been 46c. I replaced it with a 10uf 25v low ESR cap, for a whole 4c more. It will now last AT LEAST 4 times as long.

QBhoy - We have totally hijacked your thread. You need an answer.

You are being under-optimistic. :smile:

We sort of did. But we have let it slide (as a mods ;)) because he did get his answer very early on. :)

Chris........
 
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