Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

[Sandi_k]

So we?ve been checking out used boats online, and have a couple of real possibilities.

One is a 2007 bowrider, from a reputable manufacturer, for sale private owner. It has 130 hours on it. This boat was fully accessorized ? factory covers for cockpit and bow, Bimini, top CD, 2 boarding ladders, stainless grab handles, grab bar on swim deck, 51 gal gas tank. The guy says he bought it with 100 hours on it, and doesn?t really have much in the way of paperwork. He?s OK with us having a mechanical inspection. Price ~ $25k.

The other is a 2003 bowrider, the same manufacturer. The original owner has consigned it with a local dealer. It only has 65 hours on it, which is not necessarily a good thing in our mind. Options include a four blade prop, bimini top, depth sounder, dual batteries, transom stereo remote and outdive tilt control, fire supression system for engine compartment, CD stereo system, storage cover and mooring cover. It?s been garaged, and looks great in the photos. Price ~ $19K.

Both are more than 350 miles away, so it?s a considerable drive to check them out. Anything we?re missing? What else should we thinking of? Which would you choose, and why?

 

[buellwinkle]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

What lengths and motors? I've seen brand new bowriders at the boat show for under $20K, brand new 2012 models.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

The 2007 has the 5.0L Mercruiser engine, MPI, 260 hp, 21' or so.

The 2003 has the VP 5.7 Gi, 260 hp, 19'6".

We live in CA - we don't want a new boat, as they're now required to have the catalytic converter...

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Not enough info. 51 gallon tank on a "21' or so" bowrider ?????? Does not seem right to me.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

The 2007 has the 5.0L Mercruiser engine, MPI, 260 hp, 21' or so.

The 2003 has the VP 5.7 Gi, 260 hp, 19'6".

We live in CA - we don't want a new boat, as they're now required to have the catalytic converter...

Why? you really don't notice a difference... And if you have someone behind on the rope you really don't smell anything at all. (boat cat's aren't a california thing anymore, they are more or less a requirement nationwide now, with the exception of any mfg who bought up a supply of engines pre-cat and is still deploying those.)

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Why? you really don't notice a difference... And if you have someone behind on the rope you really don't smell anything at all. (boat cat's aren't a california thing anymore, they are more or less a requirement nationwide now, with the exception of any mfg who bought up a supply of engines pre-cat and is still deploying those.)

+1. Nothing wrong with a "cat' motor at all. I would not hesitate buying a boat that had it. Since we already did last spring.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Hello Sandi:

Tell us what brand of boat these are . . . as that effects the feedback, price evaluation, etc.

nadaguides.com can give you some price references. BUCvalu.com is another source.

Nothing closer? Lots of used boats for sale.

Both boats have really low hours, so they were not used much . . . you probably need to understand why they weren't used? . . . also, what happened to them when they were not being used?

Proof of ownership would be critical (i.e. Title document) Are they still called 'pink slips' in California?

 

[keith2k455]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

sThis is interesting ... I've been watching the market within 200 mi of central il. The tank size on the new boat seems odd to me.

I've started to think that storage is a huge deal and that inside storage would reduce risk of rot. Either way, both prices seem high and 300 miles is a long way. Might as well add another 1k - 2k to the price for loss of vacation day, gas and food to go get it.

Let's not forget...300 miles and you'll probably get it unless its total basket case... The seller knows this too. Spend the extra $$ and buy closer.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Typically I suggest you get the biggest boat you can afford since storage space disappears on boats quickly, all things considered I would stick to that, both boats have comparable engines albeit the 5.0 will have less torque then the 5.7 even though they have the same horsepower, if the 21' or so boat had the 5.7l it would clearly be the better choice if all other considerations were equal, but you really need to know what 21' or so means also, if this boat is also a 19' boat then price becomes a major factor.

Looks like you need more info to me.

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Proof of ownership would be critical (i.e. Title document) Are they still called 'pink slips' in California?

Yep, we still call them that Ted.

And you are right that buying from a current owner with the boat and trailer not only registered in their name but also "owned" in their name is the only way to go.

It took me a few trips to our DMV and having to get letters from the previous owner and a credit union clearing a mix-up on the "paid-in-full" loan on the trailer for our Sea Ray to realize how a simple mistake can take weeks to get cleared up.

Mark

 

[moosehead]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Sandi, glad you are finding some decent used options. It would be helpful to know make, outdrive specs (duo or single prop), trailer specs, other features such as swimdeck and interior details. In general, here are some basics in breaking a tie:

1) All else equal, bias is towards best kept craft. If one has meticulous service records and has been stored indoors in the off season, then lean that way.

2) Tie between the extra length and the biggest powerplant. As others said above, the larger craft generally needs a bigger powerplant to get on plane and cruise, especially if fully loaded. So given similar HP in this case, the smaller craft may be better balanced, not quite sure.

3) When travelling that kind of distance, do not be afraid to ask the owner to meet you half way, and to obtain a bunch of detailed high-resolution photos. The opposite is also true, once you are eyeball to eyeball with cash in hand, negotiating leverage can go your way as well.

4) Good advice on asking for title for boat and trailer. Many times the owner still owes more on the boat than it is worth, so getting the deal done and having clear title in hand can take some delays. Avoid them if you are travelling and insist on title for cash if possible.

Good luck.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Not enough info. 51 gallon tank on a "21' or so" bowrider ?????? Does not seem right to me.

Confirmed by Boating Magazine, and another online dealer ad for a different boat, same model and year. Google is my friend.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Why? you really don't notice a difference... And if you have someone behind on the rope you really don't smell anything at all. (boat cat's aren't a california thing anymore, they are more or less a requirement nationwide now, with the exception of any mfg who bought up a supply of engines pre-cat and is still deploying those.)

And the "why" is because DH doesn't want one. He's a big fan of fewer systems = easier to repair, and cheaper to maintain, and less to break. So it may seem unnecessary, but as I noted in an earlier post, his biggest concern is that the boat not be another project for him. And he would take the bullet if something needed to be repaired. So it's an easy criterion, and one that I'm doing my best to accommodate.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Hello Sandi:

Tell us what brand of boat these are . . . as that effects the feedback, price evaluation, etc.

We're looking now at used Four Winns, Reinell, Monterey and Chaparral. Between 18-22 feet, under $25K, fewer than 200 hours on the engines, and at least a 250 hp engine. Non carbureted. Dual axle trailer. I told you I had a spreadsheet.

nadaguides.com can give you some price references. BUCvalu.com is another source.

Yes, I've been on Nadaguides, and in the spreadsheet I give the Lo, Med, High values, as compared to asking price. Haven't looked at BUCvalu yet, thanks for the tip.

Analysis on the spreadsheet suggests that Four Winns hold their value longer, as do Chaparral (and we'd agree that they seem to be built more solidly than the Monterey or Reinells of the mid-2000's).

Nothing closer? Lots of used boats for sale.

There are lots of used boats for sale, but DH wants the VP 5.0L engine, or the 270 hp Mercruiser. There are many with the 220/225 hp that he won't consider, since the dry weight of the 4 brands we're looking at are 3000 lbs+ in the 20' range. So there are a finite number who meet these very specific criteria.

Both boats have really low hours, so they were not used much . . . you probably need to understand why they weren't used? . . . also, what happened to them when they were not being used?

One of them was bought by a guy in his 70's for use with the grandkids. He's now in his 80's, and selling the boat. The pics show the boat garage, and the condition looks immaculate - but it's the 2003.

The other was stored at a lake house, and only used in the summers. Second owner, and fine with us having it checked out by a local mechanic.

Proof of ownership would be critical (i.e. Title document) Are they still called 'pink slips' in California?

And yes, we agree that documents are key. One is at a dealer, so no worries on title on that one. The second one? We wouldn't take it without a bill of sale and a pink slip.

Sandi

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Tell the DH that Mercruiser does not make a 5.0L 270hp engine. VP does.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

sThis is interesting ... I've been watching the market within 200 mi of central il. The tank size on the new boat seems odd to me.

As I said, it's in the ad, plus two other sources.

I've started to think that storage is a huge deal and that inside storage would reduce risk of rot. Either way, both prices seem high and 300 miles is a long way. Might as well add another 1k - 2k to the price for loss of vacation day, gas and food to go get it.

DH is self-employed, and doesn't get vacation days. Getting it is not trivial, but not the end of the world - remember, we live in CA, and a 300 mile trip is what we do on the weekend to visit family. $500 in gas or so, and totally worth it to get a boat in primo condition.

Let's not forget...300 miles and you'll probably get it unless its total basket case... The seller knows this too. Spend the extra $$ and buy closer.

Um, we're not buying something just because we drove to see it. And sorry, we're not upping the boat budget - as mentioned before, a larger base price on the boat = 10% in use tax to the state, so buying a less expensive boat that's farther away actually can pay for itself.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

Tell the DH that Mercruiser does not make a 5.0L 270hp engine. VP does.

Yeah, whatever. He can keep it straight - I obviously cannot.

 

[BonairII]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

I have no knowledge of either boat, but here's my 2 cents.

Youre looking at boats that are 6-10yrs old. $19-25k is HUGE amount of money to spend on boats of that age IMO....especially from private sellers that can't/won't offer you any kind of warranty.

The fact that you'd be facing a 700 mile round trip just to look at the boat....would be a deal breaker for me. Plus add in gas, tolls, time at work lost....and money to have a marine survey done.

Id keep looking for a boat thats much closer to your home.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

You may want to google" VP fuel pump problems" and you will find some interesting info about failures, and the high cost of
replacement. Mercruiser is not immune to these ethanol problems, but seems to be more prevalent with the pumps VP uses.
If the DH want's "fewer repairs, simpler systems" some of the used older boats may not be as appealing as the price dictates. New Cat engines
are made to run 10% ethanol fuel, wheras the older "pre-cat" engines were not. All engines will run the fuel, but it is possible that
you could develop some fuel system problems with an older motor before you would with a new catalyst equipped engine. Just a thought, from
a non expert boating guy.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Think it Through with Me: 2003 vs. 2007 Bowrider? Or Neither?

And the "why" is because DH doesn't want one. He's a big fan of fewer systems = easier to repair, and cheaper to maintain, and less to break. So it may seem unnecessary, but as I noted in an earlier post, his biggest concern is that the boat not be another project for him. And he would take the bullet if something needed to be repaired. So it's an easy criterion, and one that I'm doing my best to accommodate.

Cats really don't add any maintenance items... The biggest difference is that fuel injected systems, even no-cat, are going to have higher repair costs, but also less maintenance. No carbs to clean, far less to gunk up. Personally I wouldn't even bring cat or no cat into the discussion... You have a budget, and look for anything within that budget. If absolute reliability is a big concern to you, look at the newer boats which may have a warranty yet even. (in other words, if I wanted reliability, I'd pick a newer cat boat over an older non-cat any day of the week!)