tilt and trim problem 125hp

[galillo]

I guys I just have one question, on my force 125hp 1988, when I pull it up at few minutes start to coming down alone, so I just need to know if this problem are the piston or the pump?

Thanks

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

1970-1992 almost always caused by valve body. 1988-1992 motor usually gives out soon after bleed down starts. 1991-1994 usually caused by cheap fluid used in mercury factory attacking trim piston rings under pressure.

1970-1987 rebuild valve body unless through motor top bolts show rust
1988-1992 rebuilt pump assembly (motor + valve body)
1992-1995 complete system overhaul

Chrysler & USMarine rams are filled with oil and should last 25-30 years. Mercury used super cheap ATF and the exact same rams only last 13-15 years. Ironically, the Eaton pump is the best engineered of any pump used on any force, mercury, or mariner engine. But even the best pump can't fix broken trim rings.

 

[galillo]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

sorry the valve body is inside the pump.?

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

1988 -
The valve body is the round aluminum thing mounted to bottom of fluid reservoir. It has two to five threaded ports where oil lines can be attached. The words "manual release" are typically cast onto the end of main fluid channel. Certain models have a screwdriver on end of plug that can be turned to release pressure. This allows engine to be manually lifted or lowered. Force engines typically did not ship with this feature.

but ... it really should not matter. The smart move is to replace the pump as an assembly. Trying to fix the valve body at home usually doesn't work out very well and still leaves you doing it again next year.

 

[sdrucker77]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

Can you recomend a source for the pump/motor assembly? Have been trying to find one but a CMC PT 130 is about the same price.

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

what year?

If you have a 1988-1991 motor that is still running and rust free then put new seals on it without rebuilding. If your do that before water gets inside then your motor is good to go for another 20 years. It takes about $10 in parts and 15minutes in time ... that's what, like $25 or so?

As regards valve body rebuilds ... to the best of my knowledge I'm the only guy in US who makes old ones new again. You can check ebay and local hydraulics shops. The guys who fix lift buckets and bulldozers have a much better chance of fixing your trim pump than a local marina. If a local marina fixed rather than replaced my trim pump ??? ha, I'd never trust that pump any further than I could throw it. Take it off the boat yourself and go to a hydraulics repair shop.

 

[dolomite_supafly]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

what year?

If you have a 1988-1991 motor that is still running and rust free then put new seals on it without rebuilding. If your do that before water gets inside then your motor is good to go for another 20 years. It takes about $10 in parts and 15minutes in time ... that's what, like $25 or so?

As regards valve body rebuilds ... to the best of my knowledge I'm the only guy in US who makes old ones new again. You can check ebay and local hydraulics shops. The guys who fix lift buckets and bulldozers have a much better chance of fixing your trim pump than a local marina. If a local marina fixed rather than replaced my trim pump ??? ha, I'd never trust that pump any further than I could throw it. Take it off the boat yourself and go to a hydraulics repair shop.

Just curious. What seals are you talking about specifically? And a link where I can get the kit would be great to.

I am relatively new to boats but Have been building/ restoring cars for years so the mechanical parts won't be an issue. I am just curious as to what seals you are talking about.

I just purchased a 1988 Bayliner with a 125 Force.

Thanks
Dolomite

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

through bolt kit #820549 (no industrial equivalent found)
gasket kit 3928992 (2.75" die cut oring with square profile - quan 2)
oil seal kit 820548 (5/16 shaft, 3/4" OD, 1/4" ht. radial oil seal with spring loaded lip, SS spring preferred)


the biggest problem is finding places to buy the oil seal and the die cut square rings. round orings, silicone seal, and other half measures simply don't work. You are condeming your motor to failure if you use the wrong part or try to gunk up the old seal. Oversize orings are even worse. They can actually cause pump failure and motor breakage. they shift relationship between pump gears armatures and brushes. There is no play and oversize orings are a very, very bad thing to do.

 

[sdrucker77]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

I have an '88 that I bought a year ago. Been searching for a pump and motor as the current pump was bleeding off and just motor quit. Been thinking of a CMC PT130 in case I finally repower. That and the prices I have found for new motor/pump are about the same as the PT130.

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt and trim problem 125hp

I think that you're looking in wrong places. Marinas and mercury dealers can't help you with this one. Try auto electric and industrial hydraulics ... or feebay.

Getting your pump assembly (motor + reservoir + valve body) to run and last like new should run you $150 to $200. If you can't wait a couple weeks while its getting fixed then ask about swap or loaner. Swap-out costs a lot more because it seems to attract all the bad cores. Core attrition and the amount of time spent keeping cores are significant with swap out. I personally charge a 30% premium for advance replacements.

BTW - CMC is a very nice unit but unless you have need for kicker plate the original is better. The best of best is 91-94 2w Eaton, 88-92 2w Prestolite second, 70-87 3w prestolite third, and 91-99 oildyne last. Oildyne would rank higher except that they absolutely rape you on maintenance parts. Owning an oildyne is like throwing your wallet into the lake. About same overall quality as 2w presto but 6-15x more expensive for same part. Eaton system with new trim piston ring is clearly king of the heap (the tall skinny, squareish pump). But - word of caution - mercury used really cheap ATF in Eaton systems and it's going to need a full rebuild by this age. Not a quality issue. same exact trim ram lasts 30years for chrysler. Purely a mercury using cheap fluid issue.