tilt creeps down, trim does not

[isnms]

I found clanton's posts on the pilot check valve. Went and got two Tecumseh 631021 (Stens 525-212) in preparation to repair them. When I got to storage I noticed that the trim ram had not bled down, any. So can I assume that the check valve is good because the trim does not bleed down?

Does that mean the tilt cylinder is bad?
Does it need repair or replace?

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

Yeah, I'd concentrate on the tilt cylinder. Could be scored or could just need new O-rings. Maybe something blocking a shock piston check valve.

 

[djohnalyn]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

I'm having the same exact problem with my tilt. The trim seems to be rock solid, but I can watch the tilt creep down. I've only had the system for 1 day so I am not familiar with it at all. I havn't had much time to research the problems yet, but I am open to all ideas.

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

the trim requires less pressure than the tilt to hold. it doesn't mean anything conclusive. you need to lift and block the engine, then plug up bottom tilt port, then remove blocking. if it still drifts down then it is tilt ram. if not, then pump.

http://home.swfla.rr.com/netsvc/bleedfix.htm

 

[isnms]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

I think I caught a break this time . I bought the seals to prepare for the worst since that usually happens to me.

This motor is new to me too. I've been servicing it and had to do quite a bit of work just to mount it on the boat. The mounting holes did not line up with the old motor. Filled old holes in the transom, sanded, drilled new holes. Had to run control cables, wiring harness, new tach. Serviced the thermostat, fuel pump, spark plugs, impeller that was hard as a rock, and lower unit oil which was so black I don't know if it had ever been changed.

Now back to tilt. I drained the oil from it and it was very black also. Probably never changed either. Filled with new 30W. Now when I tilt all the way up, which is just about horizontal, it will creep down about 7-8 inches in ten minutes or so then does not seem to creep down any more, which is still a full tilt


RRitt - I just saw your post. I'll have to try that later. Thanks.

 

[djohnalyn]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

Well I started pumping more 30w oil into mine because after i read another post somewhere I realized that after filling it for the first time that I needed to cycle it up and down a few times then check and refill. Well, I did that a few times and added more oil. I did it a few more times and added even more oil.

Now, as i was pumping in the last batch of new oil some of the old started flowing out. What came out was a milky color substance. Does this mean that I most likely have water mixed with my oil?

If so, should I simply drain the entire system and start back with 100% fresh?

Also, inms, it sounds like you and I have and are going through all the same motions with our engines. btw, as of 2 months ago i had never even seen a boat motor up close, let alone work on one.

Now I feel like a Force pro in training.

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

djohnalyn,

Hopefully, the milky look could be due to foaming of 30w as the air bubbles get pumped out. It probably isn't though. These air bubbles don't cause the white residue that people are usually talking about when they say "milky".

If it is the milky look of water mixing with oil then it most likely means that the seals on your motor are going out. The motors last for 99 years or until water gets into them - whichever comes first. If it is water then the sooner you get pump assembly rebuilt (motor + valve body) then the less likely you are to face rust repair. Surface rust inside motor is a non-issue. Once it gets deep it is a significant issue that can cost $40-$100 more to fix properly. Worst case scenario is rust getting behind magnets and causing them to come unglued. My advice would be to check ebay and get the pump ay. serviced or exchanged at your earliest convenience.

 

[isnms]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

djohnalyn - When refilling my reservoir and on the down cycle I noticed foamy oil coming out the fill hole too. However, I have to go back and change the oil again. The 30w I put in was not non-detergent

I used RRitt's description, from another thread, for the change process.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?p=1296039&post1296039

raise it fully and block into place. disconnect two front oil tubes from pump. run system "up" and all the oil in resevoir will come shooting out of ports. Put some paint thinner into resevoir to dissolve residue and run pump to dry. do not over-run because you are also dissolving lubrication. Just run until fluid stops. leave filler plug out and let it drip for a while. remove blocking and let weight of engine force oil out of tubes.

If changing from ATF to oil then you may want to remove additional parts and give it a more thorough flushing.

Hook everything back up and refill with oil. leave out filler plug so that air can enter or exit resevoir. Run sytem up/down a few times. it is self bleeding. you will probably need to top it off once as cylinders fill back up with oil. You'll know when resevoir is getting empty because system will stop going up. It takes about a pint.

On a bright note: I fired it up for the first time last night. It started on the first turn of the key

djohnalyn, Well get these things up and running yet !!

 

[djohnalyn]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

Hey isnms, good to hear it's firing up well, and thanks for that link!

I decided that I am going to completely drain the system and start back fresh with Non-detergent 30w (please tell me what NON detergent means).

Since I willl be in that neighborhood again I figure I will try to rebuild the motor. So, who can tell me where can I get the seals and other parts needed for the rebuild? Is a rebuild kit available, or is that too simple?

On another note, my motor ran fine yesterday, eventhogh it still lacks wot rpms (I thought fixing my throttle plate problem was the answer; I was wrong) but my choke soleniod stopped working

 

[RRitt]

Re: tilt creeps down, trim does not

non-detergent means that the oil doesn't have any detergents in it. The detergents can harm your o-rings.

Assumming that you have a 2w motor because 3w is completely different:

The motor collar seals are #38 square rings (industrial supply), the cap bolt seals are standard #10 sealing washers (hydraulic supply), the cable entrance is an oval grommet for electrical cord grip (electrical supply), and the lower oil seal is a standard 0.313 x 0.750 x 0.250 oil seal with spring loaded lip (auto parts). The hardest part to find will be the square rings. They are not a particularly common item and you may need to buy 100 of them. Quad rings will work. Although more expensive per ring you may only have to buy 50.

If inside of motor is rusted then make sure to take care of the rust. If not then magnet might come loose or rust particles may cause intermittent failure. Assumming that motor is running fine and that you are catching any leaks pro-actively (before they turn to cancer) then you probably won't need to do anything other than replace the seals. Frankly - since you already mentioned bleed down I don't know why you want to bother with motor seals. Anyone who can rebuild Prestolite valve bodies will also have motor seals and cap bolts on hand. It hardly adds 5 minutes to their work to slap some new seals into the motor. Of, course - if your motor already has red cancer then new seals aren't going to make any difference.