tilt/trim blowing fuses...

[iRich]

Hi all, I added a tilt/trim to my 1975/85hp johnson and am finally getting around to wiring it up. I am using to 12 volt solenoids that I bought at an auto parts store and a momentary switch. Everything is working except when I trim down it pops the fuse after a couple of seconds. I've tried 20 amp and 30 amp fuses with the same result. I don't think I should use any higher because the pump wire is only 12 ga. I think. Tilting up is no problem at all. I have 10 ga. wire with a fuse holder going to one solenoid and a jumper wire to the same post on the other solenoid. Then I have the blue and red wires from the pump on the opposite post on each solenoid. Am I missing something? Does the pump draw more amps trimming down? Also what is the correct size fuse for this thing? Anyone know?<br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

 

[papasage]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

irich ilooked at my tilttrim it has a breaker on it i couldnt read the # on it . it has a button on the end that pops out just push it back in . this is a cmc t&t. mine doesent have cylidnoids . they have little black boxes . avable at autoparts stores but expensive . i would like to see a wiring diagram on yours if you have one .emailme at papasage10@yahoo.com <br /><<<<<<<<<<<<papasage>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

thanks papasage, but mine doesn't have the breaker. I am adding a tilt/trim to my motor. the boat was never wired for it so I am trying to set it up myself. I would like to add that it trims down real slow also. Trims up great. Could something in the tilt/trim assembly be bad that would cause it to have to work harder in one direction than the other? I would think trimming down would be easier but not in this case. I'm going to bypass the solenoids tomorrow and try going directly to each pump wire with a fused piece of wire and see if it still blows. Any suggestions are welcome and remember this is a retrofit and has never worked correctly yet. I'm just trying to get it right. Thanks<br />Rich

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

^^bump^^

 

[papasage]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

mineis a addon to . what brand is yours

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Ok, I was fiddling around with it today and I noticed that when it switches to the trim cylinder going down it seems to catch a bit and then continue down. Does this sound like there may be air in the system or something? I can't even push the motor all the way down after releasing the manual release screw. I can pull it all the way up manually from full down but going down it stops right when I believe the trim cylinder takes over and the only way to get it down farther is by jumping a wire from the bat. to the red pump wire and it will go down slow then. Is there some kind of valve in the pump that may be sticking? It's weird because going up is no problem at all. So in a nutshell I'm thinking that the fluid is traveling fine on lifting the motor but something is restricting it on lowering it? Am I making any sense?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

 

[clanton]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

The power supply to the T/T motor not fused, only the power supply to the switch, and sometimes these are not fused.

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

I put a fuse holder in the line from the bat. to solenoid. I just don't understand why the pump has to work so much harder tilting down. <br />Rich

 

[papasage]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

do you have to much fluid in it.

 

[jarob]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

If you have unscrewed the manual release screw and it still wont go dowm manually this must tell you something.is the main shaft that the motor swivels up and down on seized in the lower position?

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

It will go down manually most of the way. It seems like at the point the trim cylinder takes over it stops. If I put juice direct from the battery to the down wire it will go down. I can see nothing that is binding. <br />Rich

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

I assume that PTT unit is the older type unit that has the external rams that sit outside of the engine transom brackets.<br /><br />If so, it incorporates a solenoid to operate and supply voltage to the electric motor in the up mode, but voltage in the down mode is supplied directly to the electric motor via the PTT toggle switch.<br /><br />The electric motor IS NOT a dual polarity electric motor which means that battery (-) voltage goes to ground in both the up and down mode, and battery (+) voltage is applied to one of two (2) cables leading to that electric motor depending on which mode is desired.<br /><br />Having the fuse blow in the down mode could indicate that something is wrong with the electric motor in that mode, and then again it could simply indicate that you are using too light a wire gauge. Look at the wiring on the electric motor itself to get a idea of what gauge to use.<br /><br />Use a fairly good size set of jumpers directly from the battery to the electric PTT motor as a test. If they get super hot, there's a problem with the electric motor. If all goes well, there's a problem with the gauge wire you're using, a connection somewhere, too light a toggle switch, something of that nature.

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Thanks for the response Joe, The PTT is the externally mounted type as you said. The boat was never set up for it before so I am winging it here. Are you saying that the PTT needs less voltage in the down mode? Is it possible that I gave it too much juice by running it through a solenoid? Would it draw less amps through the switch? Also, why can't I manually trim it all the way down by releasing the relief screw? <br /> I will try to run it direct from thew switch tomorrow and post back what happens. Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

The solenoid is not required in the down mode, and although OMC doesn't say, I can only assume that this is due to gravity helping to lower the engine.<br /><br />Too much voltage (juice) has nothing to do with the problem as it would be impossibe to exceed the power supply of 12 volts. Too little voltage would give you a problem though.<br /><br />No PTT unit (past or present) can be lowered completely manually. They will lower to the full up position of the "trim" pistons and no further.

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Joe, I'm going outside to test it right now. Will post the results in a few. Thasnks,<br /><br />Rich

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Ok, I jumped a 12 gauge wire with a 30 amp fuse in it to each motor wire and ran it all the way up and down teice with no problems. I guess sending the down current through a solenoid somehow caused it to blow fuses? So what is the correct way to wire this thing up then? Right now I only have a 18 ga. wire going to the center of my on/off/on sw. and two 18 gauge wires going to the solenoids to switch them on. I don't think the switch could handle the amps that the motor draws. Everyone tells me to use two solenoids. Why doesn't it work for me? Thanks for the help Joe, as usual you are right on the money. If someone could show me a wiring diagram for this thing I would sure appreciate it. My manual dosen't show it with solenoids, just a relay box which I don't have. Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Rich.... That unit does not use the dual relay setup, just the single solenoid for the up mode. I don't know if I have a diagram of that setup or not, but I do believe that I may still have a new wiring harness for that unit left in my remaining stock (harness, plugs, solenoid, etc etc). If so, I can send a picture of it to you whereas you can use it as a guide, whatever. I'll check later on that. Contact me at my e-mail address and remind me of what I just offered. ReevesJ32@aol.com

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Well i just tested it again with like a 14 ga. wire directly to the motor wires and it got hot going down but not up. Also was slower going down. I guess it may be inside the trim motor huh? Is there something inside it that would cause it to cause these symptoms? Also where can I buy the trim motor if I need one? It is the calco type.<br /><br />Rich

 

[iRich]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Ok, I got it fixed. It was one of two things it seems. I took the motor apart,(I wouldn't recommend doing this), and noticed two little rubber washers at the bottom of the pump housing. They were covered with the black dust from the motor operating which leads me to believe they weren't where they should be. Which by looking at it is between the stationary coil, (don't know the correct name for the part), and the bottom of the housing where the screws go in. I'm thinking they may be there to insulate said coil. I think someone took it apart before and didn't get the washers back where they belonged. I stuck them to the bottom of the coil thing with some grease and ran the screws though the whole assembly to keep them lined up and carefully put it back in place. Getting the brushes opened to slide back into position was a little tricky too but I used a thin wooden skewer to push them back so they would slide down. The top of the housing is only opened about 3/8 of an inch at this point so it was a little hairy. The only other thing I did was to wipe the coil and armature down and lightly sand them. So I don't know if it was the washers or the cleaning that did it but it works great now. Hooked it back up to solenoids and switch and ran it up and down and it is alot faster going down now. Didn't blow the fuse either. Thanks for the help guys.<br /><br />Rich

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: tilt/trim blowing fuses...

Rick.... Glad to hear your PTT assy is now operational. Your perseverance paid off. I knew you could do it. Very glad to hear that the electric motor is okay, that item is somewhat expensive.