To remove VRO or not to remove?

[Johny25]

I know this topic has been discussed before but I thought I would get a few opinions as they may vary. Long story short I got a 93' 120 johnson 90 degree looper. the previous owners used the VRO system without ever having an issue. I like others have heard horror stories of the VRO systems, what is really true or not is debatable. I know there were some legitimate issues the first couple years of the VRO system that OMC tried and from what I understand did correct. I always told myself when I got one of these motors I would immediately disconnect the VRO if it hadn't been already but after doing much research I am on the fence about it.

This is a 93' year motor so I know it has the better (safer) VRO system. After closely looking the system over and now having a much better understand of how it truly works it seems that a lot of these horror story's I and others have heard about were most likely false, exaggerated or better yet an engine malfunction caused by something that had nothing to do with the VRO system. I understand what happens to these motors when they run on straight gas so no need to go into all that but has anyone TRULY seen a VRO pump/diaphram fail? I know that for a novice boater or a just plain lazy boater who doesn't take care of their equipment that the VRO system could be a hazard but for the people who take care of there stuff with regular maintenance and COMMON SENSE the VRO system seems to have a very practical system with few actual documented failures. Most of which I believe happened the first year or two which caused sort of an hysteria that OMC couldn't seem to shake regarding the VRO. So anyone who wants to chime in please do so

 

[HenryB]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

You obviously feel that your VRO pump is old and its reliability is in doubt.

VRO pumps do fail, some much younger than yours. It is a calamity when they do fail. I disabled mine at thirteen years. One had failed on me and it was a calamity.

The VRO pump also pumps your fuel. It is twenty years old, too.

Disabling the VRO does not cost much, if anything. A new non-VRO pump costs almost as much as a new VRO pump.

I opted to disable the VRO, buy a new non-VRO, and mix my own.

I have a '98 130

 

[rtek816]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Johny,

1986 140HP Evinrude still running VRO. Like you said, care and maintenance are what keeps these boats and engines alive through the years. I've been on my boat from day 1. When my buddy passed away 5 years ago I bought it from his widow. It's a Starcraft 21' Mariner and I rebuilt the entire boat, floor, transom and engine. The engine had 1600 hours on it when it broke a ring (not due to the VRO pump). Just worn out. Still runs like a scalded dog. I'm a believer that the VRO system is solid. I replaced the original pump at the time of rebuild just for GP. It was 22 years old.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

(VRO Changeover Judgement Call)
(J. Reeves)

The VROs first came out in 1984 and have been upgraded quite a few times. In my opinion, back around 1988, they had perfected them but I think that they were upgraded even more since then. As long as the warning system is operating as it should, I feel quite at ease with them.

Some boaters have voiced their thoughts such as "What if that overpriced plastic horn should fail while I'm under way for some reason, and the VRO decides to fail five minutes later?" Obviously that would result in a big problem which really brings their fears into view.

The word "ease" is the key word though. If one has the slightest feeling of being ill at ease with that setup, then they should take the route they feel more at ease with. A judgement call each individual would need to make on their own.

********************
(VRO Pump Conversion To Straight Fuel Pump)
(J. Reeves)

You can convert the VRO pump into a straight fuel pump, eliminating the oil tank and VRO pump warning system, but retain the overheat warning setup (and fuel restriction warning if so equipped) by doing the following:

1 - Cut and plug the oil line at the engine so that the oil side of the VRO pump will not draw air into its system. Trace the wires from the back of the VRO to its rubber plug (electrical plug) and disconnect it.

2 - Trace the two wires from the oil tank to the engine, disconnect those two wires, then remove them and the oil tank.

3 - Mix the 50/1 oil in the proper amount with whatever quantity fuel you have. Disconnect the fuel line at the engine. Pump the fuel primer bulb until fuel exits that hose with the tint of whatever oil you used. Reconnect the fuel hose.

That's it. If you want to test the heat warning system to ease your mind, have the key in the on position, then ground out the tan heat sensor wire that you'll find protruding from the cylinder head. The warning horn should sound off.

 

[Johny25]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

You obviously feel that your VRO pump is old and its reliability is in doubt.

VRO pumps do fail, some much younger than yours. It is a calamity when they do fail. I disabled mine at thirteen years. One had failed on me and it was a calamity.

The VRO pump also pumps your fuel. It is twenty years old, too.

Disabling the VRO does not cost much, if anything. A new non-VRO pump costs almost as much as a new VRO pump.

I opted to disable the VRO, buy a new non-VRO, and mix my own.

I have a '98 130

On the contrary Henry. If that were the case I would have disconnected it immediately. The motor I have is actually in near mint condition for its year and that's why I am leaning toward leaving it be and not disconnecting.

 

[Johny25]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Here is a little article I found interesting continuousWave: Whaler: Reference: VRO Fuel-Oil Mixing

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

The VRO is rubbish full stop.
OMC put little yellow/orange plugs on the pipes so you can convert back to pre-mix AND EVEN TELL YOU HOW TO DO IT.
the only reason for the vro was to try and lean out the ngines for the eco nutters who worry about 2 stroke emissions.
Funny how so many melted pistons turned up once the vro was put into action !!!!!!!

Now my engine is a 1995, and the vro has failed big time,lucky for me i noticed it before it done damage to the engine.
i also have its sister engine that is now total scrap and just used for spares due to VRO failure. yes failed oil side of vro!!!!!!!!!.
I know loads of people who have had the same problems and all the very same symptoms, cylinders melted due to NO OIL
and plenty of petrol getting through to wash out the oil thats left.
Some have had the fuel side of the vro fail as well, i have had this on 1 engine, thats ok as too much oil in the crankcase is
not a problem for stationary engine thats run out of fuel.

The idea of it is great, but take one apart and youl then see why it fails so easily and so often.
There are plenty of people who will say its a great thing and its not often wrong,these are normally outboard mechanics who
earn a nice bit of money due to the vro problems and the blown pistons and ruined blocks etc.
Have you seen the amount of things that can go wrong ?
and when people say it makes life easy they are just plain nuts, you still have to go and buy 2 stroke oil and still have to
put it in the oil tank and also dump it if you dont use it as it will collect water and moisture.
Then there is also the oil tank itself, normaly carried down low in the boat next to where the water stays in the bilge etc.
Inside this tank is a filter for you to clean out !!!!!! there is pipes that you need to keep an eye on for if any air leaks they
wont do their job.
The fitting on the side on the engine also has to be kept nice and clean then it goes through the engine opan into that stupid
little piece of plastic that gets bunged up with gummy oil then on upto the vro that realy dont like oil in anyway.
then after all that it just gets shoved into the petrol like pre-mix before it enters the engine and you go boating.

Now its very expensive to repair a vro and its very problematic and does cause engines to sieze up.
The omc and bombardier do not reccomend it for safety with the RNLI the Dont sell it the Navy with vro neither due to safety.
Omc themself place little plastic bungs for you to switch back to pre-mix tyhat alone speaks volumes for its unreliabilty.

To say i have a very clean 1993 engine is madness as well, i could get a real crap one and make it look brand new in
just a few days that dont mean its not worn out !!!!!!!!
Now if you have got a 1993 engine thats only done a few hours then the chances of it working realy good are very small.
this old engine has probably sat gathering rust on its internals for 20 years, the bearing rotting away and all fuel pipes need changing,
electrical wires need re-newing etc etc etc.
A regular used engine kept well maintained is much better than one left to the elements for 20 years .

you like the vro then fine you keep it on the engine, the idea of it is crap and 99% of people who have a bit of knowledge
with outboards take it off.
youl never ever sell that idea to thousands of people in the boat world.
And its funny how bombardier are now making a lot more of the old pre-mix fuel pumps and yet hardly any vro pumps !!!!
The vro when running at best, starves the engine of the amount of oil it was designed to run on.

oil injected engines are totaly different and are made different, so do not try to compare with e-tec.

that is my opinion on vro and i have a block that it ruined for proof.

the article on continous wave is total rubbish, its all theory and cannot be backed up even by the manufacturer.
its a good read and very similar to when a politition tells you how great he will be for you in the future.
knowledge of something actually happening and theory are so different.


phill

 

[Lightning1]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

I disabled the VRO on mine (92 40hp) when I first got it.
To me it is a overly complicated system with too many things to go wrong.
I am a believer that simple is good, and after my engine failed the "Ground the tan wire and listen for horn"
test, removing it was a no-brainer.
Pre-mixing may be a little more hassle, but knowing that my engine will never have an oil starvation failure
makes it well worth it.

 

[Johny25]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Wow phill....why so angry? I'm not trying to sell you a VRO system. I appreciate your reply but it sounded more like a rant than anything. I am not a novice to outboard motors either. The VRO may be a new system for me but I do understand and know 2 stroke motors well. And as far as anyone with any outboard knowledge saying the VRO is junk, well that's not exactly true. I have seen and heard opinions from both sides from very respected and knowledgeable people regarding this topic.

 

[C.O.L.]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Phil didnt sound angry, he was speaking from experiance with solid examples. It sounds like by your replies that you have make up your mind that you want to keep your VRO pump. I have heard a ton of info from both sides. I happen to have a 1994VRO 70hp Johnson and I have not disconnected it yet, but am seriously thinking about disconnecting it.

 

[Johny25]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Phil didnt sound angry, he was speaking from experiance with solid examples. It sounds like by your replies that you have make up your mind that you want to keep your VRO pump. I have heard a ton of info from both sides. I happen to have a 1994VRO 70hp Johnson and I have not disconnected it yet, but am seriously thinking about disconnecting it.

I guess the 30 plus exclamation points during his rant were intended to be smiley faces?

 

[Fishknutz]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

VRO sucks. A new VRO pump cost $400. A pump for a 1986 28special will bolt rite on for $75. Plug the pulse hose then just above that you will see a screw between 2 small bolt holes. Remove that screw & bolt on the new pump, hook up the fuel line, turn the line that feeds the carbs upside down and hook it to the pump, add oil to the fuel and there you go.

 

[Johny25]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

I think you missed the purpose of the OP. I know how to remove it

 

[89renken175]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

I run the Vro. I did have to replace it because the FUEL side could not keep up, NOT the oil side. My motor is an 89 so it's made it this long on the Vro system. I do rebuid my carbs every three years for good measure. Key to a long life is to maintain the motor on a regular schedule, period!
My mechanic told me, it never hurts to put a little oil in the tank on older motors when using the Vro system. She might smoke a little more, ain't nothin wrong with that!
So, to me the Vro works!

 

[itsaboattime]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Like Joe said, it's your call. I have never ran a VRO outboard. My '87 110 came to me with the VRO gone. I too have read the horror and satisfied stories. I have even posted on here against them. Then I read more about them and opened my mind. I believe that with a good maintainance schedule and upgrades, VRO should last a long time.
Personally, I like to mix my own gas. My 110 has alot of hours and I put a lil extra oil in the tank.

 

[Outsider]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Phil didnt sound angry,

Yeah, he did. And I'm betting he does his own maintenance ...

 

[Johny25]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Thank you all for the replies, much appreciated. I think I am going to keep the VRO on for now. The alarms and engine are in perfect working order and I meticulously maintain my motors so I am confident the system will be ok

 

[DJ Grimes]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

i say remove it an go pre mix vro is a good design but there always that thought in the back of your head everytime you turn the key asking yourself will this be the day the pump quits the alarm doesnt go off an im dead in the water, premix=cheap insurance i disconnected mine before i even put it in the water an shes run strong for 2 years now

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

Thank you all for the replies, much appreciated. I think I am going to keep the VRO on for now. The alarms and engine are in perfect working order and I meticulously maintain my motors so I am confident the system will be ok

Understood, and that's a route that many boaters take. As long as the warning system is functional, any problems encountered will be minor.

(VRO Horn Warnings)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: I retired around 1991/92. Possibly some of the later V4 engines and others may also incorporate a fuel vacuum switch that would enable a fuel restriction warning to sound as mentioned below, an unknown factor to myself.

1 - A steady constant beep = Overheating - The V/6 engines, possibly some others, have a fuel restriction warning which is also a steady constant beep.

2 - A beep every 20 or 40 seconds = oil level has dropped to 1/4 tank. (Late model engine = Every 40 seconds)

3 - A beep every other second = VRO failure, air leak in oil line, oil restriction, (anything that would result in a lack of oil being supplied to the engine).

NOTE - If the warning horn is the black plastic (overpriced) three wire type horn, the warning horn should beep once when the ignition key is turned to the ON position. If it does not, it is either faulty or someone has disconnected it (a stupid move!). At any rate, if it does not beep which indicates that the horn is non functional, find out why and do not run the engine until the problem is corrected.

 

[HenryB]

Re: To remove VRO or not to remove?

I don’t think the engine cuts out a bank if a low oil condition happens. A lot of engines would be alive today if it did. I do know what happens when I’m cruising at 5,000 rpm and I pick up a plastic bag and the engine temp rises. I cruise along not hearing the over heat warning and too busy looking ahead to notice the red light.. No engine damage. If the same thing were to happen on one of my engines I’d probably still have it today.