to the lefts and rights

[bubbakat]

I don't argue war and politics and religon but this c/p spells out the very way I feel<br /><br /><br />Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not<br />started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11,<br />2001? Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not<br />brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac<br />from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania? Did nearly<br />three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or<br />crushing death that day, or didn't they? **<br /> <br />And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated"<br />when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I<br />don't. I don't care at all. **<br /> <br />I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents<br />for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11. **<br /> <br />I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start<br />caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in<br />Saudi Arabia. **<br /> <br />I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for<br />hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling,<br />slashed throat. **<br /> <br />**I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out<br />and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding<br />in mosques. **<br /> <br />**I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search<br />of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their<br />suicide bombs. **<br /> <br />**I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First<br />Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead<br />of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights. **<br /> <br />**In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up<br />an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care. **<br /> <br />**When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have<br />been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest<br />assured that I don't care. **<br /> <br />**When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told<br />not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the<br />bank that I don't care. **<br /> <br />**When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat,<br />and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is<br />complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely<br />believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care. **<br /> <br />**And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran"<br />and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- ***<br /> <br />WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: to the lefts and rights

and our state sponsered terror in that entire region counts for what? our meddling and supplying chemicals and weapons as well as weather intell and radar blanking killed 50 times what they managed to do.<br /> if you ish to holler at least holler at both sides. one we may have a say in the other is entirely up to them. but dont blame all for the sins of a few.<br /> I guess all the chemical and bioweapons stuff we sold saddam in the 80's was useless and never used, or the aircraft and weapons the israilis sold the Iranians were as useless or the fleet of F-14's we sold Iran is about the same. the F-14's have me a bit concerned now that the russians are upgrading the avionics and engines with modern stuff that the iranian AF can get parts for. the air frame is still cutting edge.<br /> but if ya need to holler look at both sides of the creek, if not we are doomed to more of the same until only one side is left.<br /> so while your ranting and raving and gnashing teeth go back and read the history between the west and the middle east for about 4 decades, longer if ya care but the last 4 are the most modern and bloody. look at how many democracies we toppled in the area in the 50's and 60's in the name of keeping the commies off our oil.<br /> I dont like quting the bible much as half of it makes no sense, but the one quote I find that is universaly true is the one about That which ye sow is also that ye shall reap.<br /> the west sowed it and tended the garden many years in secret, now the west gets to reap it and its not pretty and wont be over in my lifetime I fear.

 

[ZooMbr]

Re: to the lefts and rights

Me too.

 

[QC]

Re: to the lefts and rights

Personally I take issue with only a few of those items.<br /><br />Not sure what the Quran/Koran comment is and basically I think we are a civilised society and we should "care" about others respect for the Koran. The vast majority of the Islamic faithful are not who we are fighting. There are many Americans who believe that the Koran is sacred.<br /><br />The reference to Abu Ghraib ("naked Iraqi prisoners") I do care about. I don't want Americans ever to behave like that. Period.<br /><br />Other than those issues, which are reasonably significant, I am on board.

 

[blade_x]

Re: to the lefts and rights

So whats the answer people? To cut and run? Serious question.

 

[rolmops]

Re: to the lefts and rights

While I respect your feelings,I think that it is a rant and no more.<br />If you want to change anything,you must stop being dependent on the same people that you just expressed your feelings about.<br />The day we can tell them to drink their oil and choke on it,we will have won that war.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: to the lefts and rights

The day we can tell them to drink their oil and choke on it,we will have won that war.<br />

All the political arguments in the world just don't stack up to the truth.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: to the lefts and rights

blade<br /> define cut and run.<br /> should we hang out indefinatly? should we actually place enough troops with the proper equipment in theater? should we have actually started with enough ?<br />define cut and run for us?<br /> as far as the oil a washington think tank has been playing with numbers again and several years ago stated what has happened so far this year. seems we are hitting the point of diminishing returns, seems we now spend more on defending the middle east oil fields than what the oil left is worth. which is why bases to protect our oil pipelines in afghanistan are critical and will be built regardless so stand by for more of the same.<br />seems the caspian sea area is now more lucrative than the current fields and the poor afghany's happen to be in the way. the russians fought for it for ten years, I just hope the ruskies dont play with the afghans the way we did in the 80's. but I could not blame them if they did.<br /> its all about the oil and the money and power it brings

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: to the lefts and rights

When the oil is gone....There will be sand....When sand becomes a commodity....all eyes will turn to to the "Middle East" again...Oil & religion for now....When the oil is gone....? I don't think the 'west' or 'east' will care..... As long as the Suez Canal remains open......Reap & sow nothing...Sow nothing & reap nothing.....JK

 

[Link]

Re: to the lefts and rights

bubbakat<br />America will be split about 50/50 on that one.<br />I happen to agree with your C&P<br />But you have and will continue to hear from the "other" 50%, but thats fair enough for me.<br /><br />rolmops <br />If I thought what you said was true <br />

The day we can tell them to drink their oil and choke on it,we will have won that war.

I would agree with you.<br /><br />From what I have read and heard we have more oil than they do. If that is true it's a Chess game. Use their pawns (OIL) first! <br /><br /> Blade_X<br />

So whats the answer people? To cut and run? Serious question

Blade_X<br />This was bubbakat's post! <br />A diffeent topic I think

 

[Laddies]

Re: to the lefts and rights

Bubbacat, a big Amen to that, unfortunatly the only thing that the people of the mideast seem to understand is brutality, simply look at the way their leaders treat them, yet some of our people cannot grasp that

 

[Ron G]

Re: to the lefts and rights

agreed.Were supose to care for the karan,NOT,do they care about christianity?

 

[KRS]

Re: to the lefts and rights

I agree with all, except the naked prisonsers.... the crime of a few that's been publicized, but it was dispicable (spelling?).<br /><br />But right on otherwise.

 

[KaGee]

Re: to the lefts and rights

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> While I respect your feelings,I think that it is a rant and no more.<br />If you want to change anything,you must stop being dependent on the same people that you just expressed your feelings about.<br />The day we can tell them to drink their oil and choke on it,we will have won that war.

Ah, h-e-l-l-o! Maybe someday your side will wake up and realize that this whole thing is not about oil. But by that time you all will either be dead or bowing on a mat 5 times a day.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: to the lefts and rights

its amazing how many so called christins seem to hold to islamic values like hammurabis code. kinda like listening to a priest prattle about virtures then get caught bung holing boys and then taking a swan dive from a redwood. its difficult to give any credence to what is shown over what is given lip service.<br /> the folks in the middle east are not much different.<br /> ya cant beat democracy into a culture 10 centuries old with a stick. to many have tried and left in 10 centuries or so.<br /> just as the crusades in the 15 hundreds came and went and numerous conquerors came and went they know that some day we will go.<br /> the only way I see any rather peacful resolution is to show them the american way rather than try to beat it into them.<br /> could you imagine the american outrage and swift military action if we had 300 POW's in a secret torture camp say in india or pakistan? the retaliation would be swift and public outrage instant. however its happening to some sub human folk half a world away and in 10 minutes it goes away.<br /> so if the policies and attitudes dont change from the past 4 decades nothing will change at all.<br />its just how life is.<br /> so I guess if they dont care for christainity its ok for christians to just do as they please to the sub-human hordes.<br /> sounds like a good plan to access heaven or 72 virgins or whatever to me.

 

[QC]

Re: to the lefts and rights

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> look at how many democracies we toppled in the area in the 50's and 60's in the name of keeping the commies off our oil.

rodbolt,<br /><br />Could you please list those democracies that we "toppled". I know of some guy in Iran that we messed with in the late '50s who threatened our influence with the Shah. We also did some messing about in Lebanon about the same time. I also know that Eisenhower flipped back and forth as far as support for Egypt was concerned, but Nasser was trying to play both sides of the fence (US and USSR) which, frankly, despite the apparent "fairness" in doing so, kinda worried us and at the time would have worried me.<br /><br />Could you also share what was wrong with maintaining and gaining influence in the Middle East to prevent the Soviets from gaining more influence there during a time when the Soviets were a very real threat. I believe it was prudent and wise to keep the balance tilted toward our interests.<br /><br />Throughout history conflicts have been waged over access to resources. This access is a real need. May be a simple one, but still real. (BTW, access is very different from stealing, and anyone who believes we steal things needs to provide some back-up.)<br /><br />I appreciate your desire to explain, and your knowledge of, the past. I also understand how that information helps us understand the road that brought us to where we are now in the Middle East. I also understand that this knowledge helps us avoid any mistakes made going forward. But I also have to ask, so what? None of this changes what we face today. It doesn't seem to make a hill of beans difference with what we are dealing with now. Again, I know about the "doomed to repeat it" stuff. I am not suggesting that we should forget anything. I want to know what you think we should do NOW.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: to the lefts and rights

i'll be careful with my wording, since last time i pissed off the majority of the board.<br /><br />your post has a few valid comments, but for the most part, it's pure hatred... and no better than the radical islamics.<br /><br />they are terrorists. because they happen to prescribe to the same religion (maybe because they're from the same place?) doesn't mean that all muslims are terrorists. it's simple relationships, come on, we learned this in second grade. bomber is muslim, bomber is terrorist. this doesn't mean all muslims are terrorists.<br /><br />the post wants to turn this intoa holy war, a fight against all muslims or anyone who follows the koran. again, no better than the terrorists.<br /><br />how do you think rational, good muslims living in the middle east would feel if they read your post? maybe just a little pissed? Wouldn't they have a right to be?

 

[KilroyJC]

Re: to the lefts and rights

We did real good in the 50's & 60's getting the oil out of the Dominican Republic & Haiti, right?

 

[snapperbait]

Re: to the lefts and rights

BOMB THEM!.

 

[aspeck]

Re: to the lefts and rights

WOW! I almost agree with matttt! I understand the sentiment of the post, and like Quietcat, I agree with a large portion of it, in theory, anyway. I agree with it where it concerns the terrorists. But not all muslims are terrorists. In fact, I believe the majority are not.<br /><br />Now, let's take this a step further. Those of us on the right complain that those on the left are not supporting our troops when they talk about withdrawing troops from Iraq, and getting out of there as quickly as possible. But did we on the right ever thing about how we are NOT supporting our troops with things like this?<br /><br />If you were a Muslim living in the Middle East and you liked the thought of freedom that we were offering, but because of all you had been taught in the past, you just didn't know if you could trust us. Then you read something like this ... what is your reaction going to be?<br /><br />Mine would be, "Oh, so that's what they think of us? Well, then we better not let them have their way with OUR country."<br /><br />So, I ask you to stop and think before repeating some strong sounding vitriol. Make sure YOU are supporting our troops and the work that needs to be done in the Middle East and Iraq to truly bring democracy to the forefront.<br /><br />I hope this is taken in the spirit it was meant, and nothing against Bubbakat. Deep down I agree with what you say about the terrorists, but not about Muslims as a whole.