Today's lesson in Physics......

bomar76

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.....so Friday I am trying to get the electricians to FINALLY put some plugs on the temp light strands so the Mexican Mafia can see at night while they are hanging drywall.
This has been an ongoing battle with the electricians for a week
There is NO temporary power in this phase of the project, so everyone is on gensets. I called and had United Rentals drop off a 6,000 Watt genset (6500 surge) to get us started.
Electricians swore up and down that there is no way in hell that genset will run the temp lights.
Here is what we have:
Six low bay type temps on three circuts.
Per the data plate, they each draw 3 Amps on start up and 2 Amps running when wired 120V.
These 2 JOURNEYMAN electricians are not idiot kids either, both are 50ish.
I keep telling them (this has been going on for 2 weeks) just to put the gawdd@mn plugs on, the genset will handle it.

I did the math for them:

6 fixtures (3 Amp start load) = 18 Amps
18 Amps (120 Volts) = 2160 Watts
(and remember these are start loads, and assumes you plug all three circuts in simultaneously.

Ohms Law totally escapes them.

So I get one of the drywallers to loan me a razor knife, I strip back the romex to bare conductors, shut off the main breaker on genset, jab wires directly into outlets.....all they while they are telling me I'm gonna burn it up and they are not responsible.

Flip the switch, and once the ballasts warm up, Voila, we have SIX lights glowing.
AND, simultaneously with this load, there are Four low rider pilots running drywall screw guns AND 2 scissors lifts plugged in to charge AND a battery pack from a screw gun plugged in to charge.

The freaking engine isn't even laboring.

I tell Misters Tesla and Edison to put the d@mn plugs on.
The entire time they are STILL telling me it won't work, generator is too small.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Heck you have enough power left for a small electric chair and a radio!! :D
 

angus63

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

That would be true for DC loads, but AC single phase draw depends on the power factor of the components. Power factor (or phase angle) is the difference between real (used) and apparent (flow). For your ac example, if you use ohm's law, you'll be safe. You'll see kva or var ratings on components that take into account power factor. A computer has a power factor of about 0.65 for example. DC would be a power factor of 1.0. Sorry, the engineering nerd in me sometimes takes over uncontrollably!!!:)
 
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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

You arent going to leave a generator at the job site overnight without someone there to guard it are you? you essay?
 

kenmyfam

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

If so you should have a large mean dog on the midnight shift !!!
 

bomar76

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

I think it's safe for the following reasons:

1. The electricians don't really seem to know what it is.
2. The drywallers know without it there, they are SOL.
 

bomar76

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

and, for the curious, here is the update from today:


Went 'round and round with those morons again today...had all 6 lights burning, two lifts plugged in to charge, a chop saw running intemittently, and various small hand tools running.
They still are pizzing and moaning "that there generator you got is gonna get burnt up"...and here is their analogy:
"It's like ya got yerself a gallon of water.
You take out a pint for this, a pint for that, and purdy soon there ain't no water left. That's whats a-gonna happen to your little generator"

So, evidently, we will sooon be suffering an electron deficit.
Or maybe the generator is going to run out of water, I'm not totally sure.
 

jameskb2

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

heh heh....

I've been a carpenter for 18 years. I feel your pain!

Sounds to me like you have two wire pullers and fixture installers, not electricians. Your math is right, obviously.

I say I'm carpentry, because it's my main forte, but I do it all, and as the general sometimes, you have to know these things as well as do them once in awhile too.

Hey...the job's moving right? That's the battle anyway!

I own a 5000 watt, 5750 surge portable Coleman 10 horse I've owned for years and years. It'll run my compressor, circular saw and sawzall at the same time. So some little lights and drywall screw guns are nothing at all.

JK
 

QC

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

It's endless. Why can't they see it now? Ask them how many days it has to run before they believe you . . .
 

dave11

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

The older I get, the dumber people become. Ohm is probably turning over in his grave. I hope those guys don't belong to IBEW.
 

Bondo

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Ayuh,....

You've got enough Excess Power to set up a Grid-Tie,+ Sell it to the POCO....:D
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Can't you just keep adding water to the generator?.......:D:D
 

v1_0

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

...and here is their analogy:
"It's like ya got yerself a gallon of water.
You take out a pint for this, a pint for that, and purdy soon there ain't no water left. That's whats a-gonna happen to your little generator"

Damn global warming:mad:
 

angus63

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

You'll just need to go out and buy some more electrons @ $3.40/gallon!
 

wavrider

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Smiling big time here.

Put a surge suppressor on the output of the Gen and tell the electricians now they do not have to worry about any power surges and the Gen will sip the water instead of let it drain out all at one time.
 

v1_0

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Nah, just tell them you put thinner wire between the Generator and the house wiring.

That way the electricity can't flow so fast.
 

bomar76

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

LOL to all.....


and people sometimes wonder why I am in the mood I am normally in....I have to deal with geniuses like this every freaking day.

I can assure you that this won't be the last example of pretzle logic from them......just waiting to see what they come up with next.
 

bomar76

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Nah, just tell them you put thinner wire between the Generator and the house wiring.

That way the electricity can't flow so fast.

On that note, on a project a few years back, we had an RTU I needed to get fired off.

For whatever reason (most likely what they had in their truck) the disconnect the electricians installed took cartridge fuses.
Of course the unit was on a 30 Amp breaker protected circut.

They said they couldn't energize the unit as they didn't have the right fuses with them, just bigger ones (as I recall the unit required 30 Amp fuses or something like that and all they had were 60's or something like that).

I said, look, the fuses are dimensionally identical, and it's on a breaker protected circut anyway, so to get the stupid thing going put the 60's in untill you get the 30's...no, it's not correct, but we need to get this fired off and when the fuses come you can swap them out.

Absolutely no way can that be done...

"Those 60's will feed the unit too much juice, it can't take all that.....we gotta use the 30's to choke it down"

I looked at them like they had two heads each.
I pointed out the breaker is going to trip WAY before the 60's even get warm.

Blank stares.

Then, they explained that the 30's "choked down" the power and otherwise the unit would suck too much juice with the 60's.

My faith in them as electricans took a serious blow.
 

rolmops

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Re: Today's lesson in Physics......

Thank you for showing us all why immigration to this country is absolutely crucial to its survival.
 
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