Total Catastrophie HELP

[zodiac340m]

TOTAL catastrophie.

We took the boat out on its maiden voyage. BIG BIG problems. The engine refused to start but for a few seconds then died and never started again. Luckily we were on a quiet arm of the Rhine River. We drifted very fast and furious about 100 meters from the ramp. Not a soul in site. Nobody was on the lake but us. It was well after 8pm. I didnt take oars cuz I said oh, we are only going for a bit and dont need them. BIG MISTAKE. I took Anchor at the last minute reluctantly. Thank God I did. It saved us from being sucked out into the main Rhine. I dropped anchor and pulled it back, threw and pull to bring up away from the current. It didnt help much. I then told hubby let us use hands and try to at least get close to the shore line and move our way back from there. We literally paddled with our hands which took nearly an hour. We finally made it back to the ramp well after 9:30. I was getting very scared. I called for help but not a soul in sight. We finally made it back to safety. The engine NEVER started. What can be the problem? It engaged once and never again. Isnt it safer to start the engine before all people get in a boat? I told hubby this but he wont liste.

I am now terrified for this to happen in France. I am honestly thinking of not taking this baot. What if this happens? We will go again tomorrow and try to get a little practice. If I dont feel good about it and engine starts but I see that hubby is really totally knowledgeless I will not take boat to france. Too much at stake here. We intend to start off at about 11am so we have loads of daylight unlike today starting well after 8pm

What could possibyl cause a brand spaking new engine not to work? Is this normal? I just dont get it. Why wont a brand new engine start? Everything was in place why wont it start? this is dangerous. I expected it to start and fire away. But never starting. We tried like every five minutes.

 

[cribber]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Lack of fuel possibly? A clogged fuel line or the fuel petcock not opened? Just a guess...

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Lack of fuel possibly? A clogged fuel line or the fuel petcock not opened? Just a guess...

We are total beginners as is GREEN. What is a petcock and where is it found? Do you mean the fuel line from the fuel tank to the engine? its all brand new never been used before. We pumped the ball to the fuel line and it got a bit hard then we stopped. how long after doing this can you start the engine? The book mentions something about air in tank. Not sure what all this means.

 

[cpubud]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

sounds to me like you and your husband need to take a boating course , and learn how to operate yor boat and motor.

 

[saltycat]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Hi, from what I understand this is a brand new engine and is a 4 stroke .
Did you check to see if you have oil in the crankcase? I'm not familiar with Honda engines, but may be a sensor that will cut off the ignition when there is not oil in the crankcase or not enough oil. Also you'll never ever leave the dock or ramp without starting the engine first after you launch the boat, the engine has to warm up for at least 3 to 5 min. Check with the dealer that sold you the engine maybe they can give you a crush course on starting and using the engine and also ask them if the engine is broken in or you'll have to do it .
Good luck, you'll need it

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

sounds to me like you and your husband need to take a boating course , and learn how to operate yor boat and motor.

agreed...internet forums are great, but the internet can't provide the "common sense seat of the pants" type education green boaters need. Sounds like you are boating in dangerous waters... go somewhere safer to learn. Get an experienced boater to take you out so you can enjoy your boat and not be scared of it.

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Hi, from what I understand this is a brand new engine and is a 4 stroke .
Did you check to see if you have oil in the crankcase? I'm not familiar with Honda engines, but may be a sensor that will cut off the ignition when there is not oil in the crankcase or not enough oil. Also you'll never ever leave the dock or ramp without starting the engine first after you launch the boat, the engine has to warm up for at least 3 to 5 min. Check with the dealer that sold you the engine maybe they can give you a crush course on starting and using the engine and also ask them if the engine is broken in or you'll have to do it .
Good luck, you'll need it

Yes, he put the oil in the engine to the max it allowed according to the owners manual. If we cant get it started or use it today then it will remain in Germany and we will leave for France without it. Its a damned shame to have spent so many thousands for something I cant use. It was intended to use on holidays but it seems that there is now not enough time to practice. Sure we can practice with it in sheltered shallow waters in closed bays but to haul all this to France and then find out nothing works will make me go nuts. Could it be something to do with the fuel to the engine from the tank that didnt function? could he have flooded the carbureator by trying to start with choke out so many times? Crash couse is not possible at this time. We can either take it with us on Sat when we leave for holidays or leave it back. In any event, we can still get a course in Franace if we need to. That is a good idea, at least on operating the outboard. But we wanted to try it again today. Will take the boat and at least get the engine to start and see if he flooded the carb. Not sure I wnat to be IN the boat but at least set it jup or trolly the enging to the water deep enough and start it. But we will do something with that engine today.

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

agreed...internet forums are great, but the internet can't provide the "common sense seat of the pants" type education green boaters need. Sounds like you are boating in dangerous waters... go somewhere safer to learn. Get an experienced boater to take you out so you can enjoy your boat and not be scared of it.

I have been and driven boats before in my life, much bigger bots with far greater engines both inboard or outboards BUT I have not had to do all the set up and tech stuff. Owners of their boats just gave me the wheels and i drove it and that was eons ago and so I have forgotten. BUT I do know how to stare and turn and trottle up and down on an ouatboard. Oh well, if nothign else fails we may take it and ask a frenchman to give us a basic course it wont hurt.

I am scared crap of this boat and now watch that engine as my enemy.

 

[saltycat]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

I have no experience with 4 stroke engines, but from what I think is happening if I'm wright a 4 stroke engine is harder to rope start because of all the moving parts like the camshaft and the valves comparing with a 2 stroke, so my conclusion is that you might not pulled hard enough to reach the point where you have enough power for a strong spark on the spark plugs and enough vacuum in the intake to have the fuel coming in the cylinders.
Just an idea.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Don't intend to make ABC basic engine course on your own specially on rivers, engines should always need to be warmed up at shore, pier, whatever secure place before starting out, always take oars for safety and anchor with long line. Why don't you stay one day before expected car departure to France, ask engine delaer to give a full engine starting/operating course, probably have choked the engine too much, had a closed air vent on tank, just wild guesses. That 5 HP engine should be a breeze to pull/start. Don't throw the towel, a proper engine course will change your feelings about the engine, nobody is born knowing boating activities, it's a lerning curve, so be a bit more patient.

Happy Boating

 

[ssobol]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

I have a 4 stroke Yamaha 40. I had read somewhere that the fuel line bulb should be pumped until it was hard. So one day I did that.

Exact same thing happened that you describe. The motor fired enough to get us just away from the dock then it quit. The motor would not restart. After nearly exhausting the battery using the starter the motor finally fired up. Ran fine after that.

While I was messing with the motor, my wife was slowly paddling us away from the dock. I told her to stop so we would not get caught in the river current before the engine got sorted out. I did not want to have to paddle against the current back to the dock if the motor would not start.

Since then I have not used the bulb on my fuel line. I don't run the motor dry between uses and the fuel is held well enough in the line that priming is not necessary. I expect that if I ran it dry I'd need to prime it, but it'll only be two or three squeezes.

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Don't intend to make ABC basic engine course on your own specially on rivers, engines should always need to be warmed up at shore, pier, whatever secure place before starting out, always take oars for safety and anchor with long line. Why don't you stay one day before expected car departure to France, ask engine delaer to give a full engine starting/operating course, probably have choked the engine too much, had a closed air vent on tank, just wild guesses. That 5 HP engine should be a breeze to pull/start. Don't throw the towel, a proper engine course will change your feelings about the engine, nobody is born knowing boating activities, it's a lerning curve, so be a bit more patient.

Happy Boating

Well guess what. We went at it again today and same or same ole. Engine wont start. I saw an older man on the slip ramp and I began to tell him how we are having such bad luch with a brand new boat and engine. he said he CAN HELP, he said he had over 20 years with outboard engines. We brought boat back on slip out of water and he started it. you are right, the rope is a monster to pull and he somehow got it going then we put it in water and he showed how to rev the trottle wile pulling to get the gas going. No problems today. We had a nice day and i enjoyed it. But turning the trottle left and right was a monster it was extremely difficult to turn left or right. I know there is a screw that need loosening. But we stayed and I drove it for 1.5 hours. I realize then how much I DONT know about boating. So we will still take it to france and there is one area like a ravine part of the sea that is blocked off. I will practice there and get someone at the dock to give us a boating engine course before venturing anyplace that is real sea or coastal. I may not even do coastal this year but just shallow bays that are inside. That is good for me. i will definitely take some kind of engine course in France. they have them readily availabel in summer. But all in all. It was a blast with the little boat

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

I dont know anythign about engines more than they make noise lol. Eventually with asking otehrs who know I think we will get the hang of it and I will sign up for some little two day engine course over in France. I know they have them at the docks on all harbors.

Something I noticed the boat was taking on a lot of water from I dont know where. The bilge was closed so I dont understand where all that set of water higher than the bilge hole is. I didnt see any leaks.

 

[ZIZON]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Your story has recalled my last trip at the sea last week, I did not warm up the engine at shore at first, I just started the engine then went for about 5 minute then the engine failed to restart, I have tried to pull the starter for several times then it fired again but just a minute later it was suddenly turnoff, it was happened many time like that after all it fired again so I go back to the shore to investigate and make a guest that may be the fuel tank has water inside then pumped in to the engine.

How people manage the gas tank to avoid the waves overboard on the gas tank vapor valve. I saw the fuel indicator has some drops of water inside and some of water may drop into the tank?

What I?m supposed to do now, do I need to take the engine to the service for checking water in the engine?
Many thanks.

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

I have a 4 stroke Yamaha 40. I had read somewhere that the fuel line bulb should be pumped until it was hard. So one day I did that.

Exact same thing happened that you describe. The motor fired enough to get us just away from the dock then it quit. The motor would not restart. After nearly exhausting the battery using the starter the motor finally fired up. Ran fine after that.

While I was messing with the motor, my wife was slowly paddling us away from the dock. I told her to stop so we would not get caught in the river current before the engine got sorted out. I did not want to have to paddle against the current back to the dock if the motor would not start.

Since then I have not used the bulb on my fuel line. I don't run the motor dry between uses and the fuel is held well enough in the line that priming is not necessary. I expect that if I ran it dry I'd need to prime it, but it'll only be two or three squeezes.

I will have a stroke if this were to happen in the open river. Where we were and will go is what is called a quiet arm of the Rhine, a few Kilometers in protected bays from the open Rhine. that is a very fast dangerous river which i wont be venturing in and a commercial waterway to boots. Why did she paddle away from the dock? I dropped anchor on Sat when I realized the boat was moving away from land swiftly. I will NEVER ever go out if this happens again. I will make sure the engine is running well and good before I venture in any water regardless of closed in areas or not. Its a really helpless feeling.

 

[zodiac340m]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

Your story has recalled my last trip at the sea last week, I did not warm up the engine at shore at first, I just started the engine then went for about 5 minute then the engine failed to restart, I have tried to pull the starter for several times then it fired again but just a minute later it was suddenly turnoff, it was happened many time like that after all it fired again so I go back to the shore to investigate and make a guest that may be the fuel tank has water inside then pumped in to the engine.

How people manage the gas tank to avoid the waves overboard on the gas tank vapor valve. I saw the fuel indicator has some drops of water inside and some of water may drop into the tank?

What I?m supposed to do now, do I need to take the engine to the service for checking water in the engine?
Many thanks.

I would be so so scared if this would happen to me at sea. I honeslty wonder if people will really come and tow you in if this happens and engine wont start? I also noticed yesterday there was a lot of water on the gas tank. I am now wondering if to cover the gas tank to avoid this? the lake was not rough and there was still a lot of water in the boat. Still trying to figure out how this happened.

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

You would be less intimidated and much more secure if you prepare for the outboard to not run at some point. Buy a couple of rafting paddles! I don't go anywhere without them. Two people can move the boat well. If you are traveling into waters the have a strong current or flow into more hazardous bodies of water an anchor with sufficient scope is not an accessory, it is a basic safety requirement.

I feel very confident when I boat in remote and hazardous conditions because I am prepared. Even a radio and relatively nearby assistance does not mean that you should not be prepared for self rescue. Your safety and happiness should not rely entirely on having your outboard run on demand.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

May be the fuel tank has water inside then pumped in to the engine. How people manage the gas tank to avoid the waves overboard on the gas tank vapor valve. I saw the fuel indicator has some drops of water inside and some of water may drop into the tank? What I?m supposed to do now, do I need to take the engine to the service for checking water in the engine?

Outing with a cold engine would not be an issue for shutting down or not starting once again engine went off, if using ethanol mixed gasolines you probably have water inside tank, if using normal gasolines, probably have water at lower tank, you can't know if service station has condensed water remains inside their tanks. If you suspect you have water in your gas system, remove all gas remains from your tank, place in plastic bottles, will see water drops usually at bottom, clean tank interior for debris, fuel pick up nozzle, engine carb bowl (remove screw) fuel filter, spark plugs. You can reuse gas leftovers if they are fresh, just don't poor bottle water reamins back in top with fresh fuel and start engine as usual.

You can place a towel on tank, place a plastic cup on top tank valve to cover if sea water splashes, droplets is an issue for you. Sometimes we do extreme boating with high wind at choppy seas with excesive water splashes inside rib, haven't had any issues with water intrussion through tank valve as to shut down engine. You shoiud check suspected water contents inside tank peridiodically to be in the secure boating zone.

Happy Boating

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

We brought boat back on slip out of water and he started it. you are right, the rope is a monster to pull and he somehow got it going then we put it in water and he showed how to rev the trottle wile pulling to get the gas going. No problems today. We had a nice day and i enjoyed it. But turning the trottle left and right was a monster it was extremely difficult to turn left or right. I know there is a screw that need loosening. But we stayed and I drove it for 1.5 hours. I realize then how much I DONT know about boating. So we will still take it to france and there is one area like a ravine part of the sea that is blocked off. I will practice there and get someone at the dock to give us a boating engine course before venturing anyplace that is real sea or coastal. I may not even do coastal this year but just shallow bays that are inside. That is good for me. i will definitely take some kind of engine course in France. they have them readily availabel in summer. But all in all. It was a blast with the little boat

Probably you weren't following correct starting procedures, asume seeing the older man starting procedure, you now know how to start it right, don't you ? Attending a summer boating course would be the correct way to go, include hubby!!

Happy Boating

 

[saltycat]

Re: Total Catastrophie HELP

If you can find in Germany this product
http://yhst-37334516642247.stores.yahoo.net/stgawaab16oz.html or an equivalent of "gasoline water absorber' you just pour it in your gas tank.