Total Noob Motor Questions

[Shomare]

Bought a 1987 Criss Craft with a 3.0 4 cyl Mercruiser in it last year. The boat had 100 hours on the clock at the time. Seemed well maintained and other than an oil change for the motor and lower unit, we ran it all summer without a care.

This year we went through and replaced the 20 year old spark plugs and wires :redface: and replaced the points style ignition with a Ignitor electronic ignition.

The boat will no longer start. Turns over, almost fires, backfires, sent up an impressive foot hight fire ball at which point I thought I better figure out what the hell I've done to it.

Also, any other items I should be looking at inspecting, replacing. I read somewhere here that the impeller might need to be replaced?


Thank you in advance.

To date I replaced:

Spark Plugs
Spark Plug Wires
Added Electronic Ignition
Installed new Deep Cycle Battery

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Sounds like you either:

1) got the plug wires on in the wrong order
2) installed the ignition system backwards
3) pinched a wire under the distributor cap when you put it back on
4) didn't get the distributor cap seated all the way in
5) bought the wrong kind of plugs
6) put the battery in backwards

Whatever it is, it sounds like you put something back together incorrectly and will have to backtrack.

Other things to check on a boat that old:

Trim hoses. They tend to crack after awhile, and can give you a rather unpleasant surprise.

Outdrive rubber parts. The bellows that protects the ujoints may have cracked over the years.

If you haven't done so, you should probably pull the outdrive and lube the u-joints and inspect the parts for rust or other damage.

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Sounds like you either:

1) got the plug wires on in the wrong order
2) installed the ignition system backwards
3) pinched a wire under the distributor cap when you put it back on
4) didn't get the distributor cap seated all the way in
5) bought the wrong kind of plugs
6) put the battery in backwards

Whatever it is, it sounds like you put something back together incorrectly and will have to backtrack.

Thanks for the tips.

Pretty sure that wires are on in the right order. Took a photo before just to insure that I did get them on in the right sequence.

Don't think I installed the ignition system backwards, followed the directions exactly, checked and double checked against the directions and the old system

Melted a pretty deep grove in the distributer cap to sufficiently accommodate the wires from the new electronic ignition

I'll double check that the cap is on level and secure. It was a bit of a PITA to get it to seat correctly. Took a couple of tries.

Got the right kind of plugs. Exact match for what was OEM. Gapped them as well.

Battery is in correctly.

Going to go though everything top to bottom on Saturday and see if I can't get it to fire up.

Is it possible that I now need to advance or retard the timing since I've added the electronic ignition?

Also, this is the first start up since fogging the engine for the winter.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Pretty sure that wires are on in the right order. Took a photo before just to insure that I did get them on in the right sequence.

Ayuh,.......

By your discreption,.... That's where I be looking........

Do you know how to find TDC,..??

Did you set the Timing,..???

 

[Don S]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Melted a pretty deep grove in the distributer cap to sufficiently accommodate the wires from the new electronic ignition

You did NOT put the electronic module in properly. I don't know where you went wrong, or even if you have the correct unit for your distributor, but there is no way you need to melt a groove in the cap.
You need a mechanic, and should not be working on a boat with those types of repairs.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

One of those " if its not broke don't fix it" kind of deals. It was running good so why change from points to electronic? Its not going to give it any more power.
Put new points,condenser and a new cap and i bet it runs...
Not trying to bash anyone but never understood why everyone wants to switch ignitions all the time..

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

You did NOT put the electronic module in properly. I don't know where you went wrong, or even if you have the correct unit for your distributor, but there is no way you need to melt a groove in the cap.
You need a mechanic, and should not be working on a boat with those types of repairs.

From the directions step 15: It is necessary to file a slot in the distributor cap to allow for the larger grommet. Using the indention on the rim of the cap as a guide, file away enough material so that the grommet will not be pinched when the cap is installed. A 3/16" deep by 1/4" wide slot is sufficient. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THIS SLOT BE FILED INTO THE CAP. FAILURE TO DO SO COULD RESULT IN AN ELECTRICAL SHORT.



So says the directions. I ordered the unit though a boat supply store, specifying my make model and year motor.

 

[Don S]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

What kit did you install? NEVER heard anything like that on a marine conversion in my life.

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Ayuh,.......

By your discreption,.... That's where I be looking........

Do you know how to find TDC,..??

Did you set the Timing,..???

Yes, I know how to find TDC. I haven't set the timing as of yet. Installed the electronic ignition in the same (or so I thought) position as the point system.

I think that timing is the culprit here.

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

What kit did you install? NEVER heard anything like that on a marine conversion in my life.

It's called IGNITOR made by Sierra. Purchased it though Overtons.

Rather than file a notch in the distributor cap, I heated up a properly dimensioned nail, and carefully melted a slot in the cap. Worked slick as snot and made the perfect size notch for the new rubber grommet that covers the wires.

 

[Don S]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Ya got a Sierra number by any chance?
I'm sorry, but that setup is hokey at best.

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Ya got a Sierra number by any chance?

Part Number? Yes:

18-5297

Conversion Kit Electronic For 4 Cyl Delco

 

[Don S]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Were the instructions from Sierra or Pertronics?

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

That's it. That is the kit I have. I'll have to assume Sierra since there isn't anything on the packaging or directions that says Pertronics

 

[Don S]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Well, that picture is from Sierra site, and if their instructions say to cut the cap, then send it back. I think very little of Sierra anyway, and this just throws gas on the fire.

From the directions step 15: It is necessary to file a slot in the distributor cap to allow for the larger grommet. Using the indention on the rim of the cap as a guide, file away enough material so that the grommet will not be pinched when the cap is installed. A 3/16" deep by 1/4" wide slot is sufficient. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THIS SLOT BE FILED INTO THE CAP. FAILURE TO DO SO COULD RESULT IN AN ELECTRICAL SHORT.

That is rediculous.
If you want the conversion kit, get one from Pertronics, not Sierra (Sierra is obviously not in touch with reallity)

Hopefully someone with more experience with this will help you out. But what you have is NOT usable.

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor/default.aspx

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Thanks Don.

I think I'm stuck with it. I'd have to buy another and start over.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Either that, or just put the points n condenser back in!
I still run them in my Cobra and they work just fine! They just need regular maintenance like everything else on a boat. Before I got this boat, I had not seen points, since our 1972 Chevy Impala with the Delco "window" distributor that let you adjust the points with an allen wrench with the engine running, so you could get it exactly right the first time, unlike our 1970 Ford with the more typical points set up.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

ahhhh the window.....
sure beats running... check the dwell... shut off... remove cap.... adjust points base.... reinstall cap.... run boat..... check dwell only to find the dwell time is to long.... shut down... remove cap.... rinse and repeat.

 

[Shomare]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

Just to double check my work, here's a photo of the before replacement of plugs and wires.

I added in the firing order as I remember it so that someone here can double check my work:

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Total Noob Motor Questions

I have installed two Pertronix kits - and yes, the instructions from Pertronix says to file the groove into the cap. I've done it twice now - two different engines - with no problems.

You might try putting the points back in and see if it fires up. If it does, try the pertronix again and see what happens. Maybe you got a bad ignitor. You did give it the full 12 volts right - in other words you bypassed the resistor wire? Correct?