Trailer Brakes - Which Option

[haulnazz15]

I picked up a 2001 Trail Master 22' trailer with a boat I needed a few scrap parts for. I bought it for $375 with a running V8 engine (I needed the lower unit). So, since I'm scrapping the boat, I think I'll swap this trailer out for the older one I already have on my boat.

Here's the issue: the newer trailer has hydraulic drum surge brakes on both axles, but they don't appear to work, and the actuator doesn't provide any resistance at all when you push on the tongue. In fact, the trailer brake actuator just slams back/forward about an inch or so when towing, making starts/stops a bit jarring. So the question is, do you go about trying to find the culprit (the reservoir is full of brake fluid) or do you just bite the bullet and install a completely new setup? If I get the new setup, I'd go with hydraulic surge disc brakes to simplify everything and I don't want to bother mounting an electric brake controller in my truck.

Side note: my runabout weighs between 3-4K lbs, so total weight with trailer is around 5Klbs. Probably not necessary to have brakes on both axles, but I dunno. We've been running our old trailer without trailer brakes for 20 years, so aside from the legality standpoint, we'd be benefited by trailer brakes of any sort.

 

[rbh]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Pull the master cylinder assembly out and bench test it, they are fairly reasonable to replace and with this trailer you already have brakes on all four wheels.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I agree, but if the drum brakes end up being frozen (trailer sat for 5+ years), is it worth hunting down parts?

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

If you can't fix them at a reasonable cost, electrics could be put on all 4 wheels for $450, controller and wiring included.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Go with Kodiak disc brakes and a new actuator. I would never have drum brakes on a trailer again. Those that think putting electric drum brakes on a boat trailer is going to eliminate maintenance hasn't had them long enough.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Go with Kodiak disc brakes and a new actuator. I would never have drum brakes on a trailer again. Those that think putting electric drum brakes on a boat trailer is going to eliminate maintenance hasn't had them long enough.

I kind of thought the same thing. I don't have an issue with electric brakes, but I'd just assume not mount a brake controller in the truck just to use it a 8-10 times a year when surge brakes are adequate for the job. If I had a 09+ F-150 with the integrated trailer brake controller I wouldn't have started this thread, lol. I refuse to work on drum brakes (mainly due to their bad reputation), especially when there isn't much difference in price to go with disc brakes. What is your opinion of Kodiak versus Titan brakes? I have researched enough here and elsewhere to know to stay away from the Tie Down kits.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I wouldn't buy Tie Down brakes if they were the last brakes on earth. The reason I am saying this is I had first hand experience. After one year of warped rotors, seized caliper pistons, they are gone and the Kodiaks went on.

I have an electric over hydraulic set up on mine so I put in a controller. That's not a big issue.

EDIT: Changed Titan to Tie Down. Not sure about Titan brakes. I saw the dreaded "T" and typed before thinking.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I kind of thought the same thing. I don't have an issue with electric brakes, but I'd just assume not mount a brake controller in the truck just to use it a 8-10 times a year when surge brakes are adequate for the job. If I had a 09+ F-150 with the integrated trailer brake controller I wouldn't have started this thread, lol. I refuse to work on drum brakes (mainly due to their bad reputation), especially when there isn't much difference in price to go with disc brakes. What is your opinion of Kodiak versus Titan brakes? I have researched enough here and elsewhere to know to stay away from the Tie Down kits.

Converted my 7000 lb trailer from old drums on rear axle to Kodiak discs on both axles. Difference is night and day. The discs slow the rig down so easily and smoothly. The electric over hydraulic is the Cadillac of them both, but the power head is pricey. Good part is that the power head can be added at a later date to eliminate the surge type MC, with just the addition of some wiring between the trailer and truck if your truck has the trailer tow package in it already. My 04 F150 already has the wiring there, so it's just plug and play for the controller. Maybe next year.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Yeah, the electric over hydraulic was a little too pricey for the amount/distance that I tow in this particular instance. I have an '08 F-150 that has the trailer brake controller harness, I just don't want to mount something to the interior panel for such a limited use. My father also occasionally tows the boat with his truck which doesn't have a brake controller, either. Surge brakes just make more sense in this case, and as you mentioned, the electric-over-hydraulic is a pretty simple change if I wanted to upgrade later on.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I wouldn't buy Tie Down brakes if they were the last brakes on earth. The reason I am saying this is I had first hand experience. After one year of warped rotors, seized caliper pistons, they are gone and the Kodiaks went on.

I have an electric over hydraulic set up on mine so I put in a controller. That's not a big issue.

EDIT: Changed Titan to Tie Down. Not sure about Titan brakes. I saw the dreaded "T" and typed before thinking.

Well, the reason I mentioned Titan is that etrailer.com has complete coupler/disk brake packages for that brand. I didn't see an all-in-one package anywhere with the Kodiaks, but I did find just their discs. So, should I go ahead and do all 4 brakes, or should I just dump the drums and do a single-axle setup? I know the weight itself is normally just fine with a single-axle setup, but the logical side of me says that if the trailer already had tandem brakes I might as well just do them all.

Finally, am I good to use the steel brakelines already on the trailer, or do I need to run new lines for disc brakes? I realize that the coupler is different between disc/drum to accommodate the slightly higher pressures but I wasn't sure about the lines themselves.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Believe it or not I have drum brakes that work, the way I made them keep working is to modify the wheel cylinders a bit and lube all the pivot points and adjuster threads with OMC triple guard grease. The reason why you have problems with drum brakes is that the dust boot is not water tight and the wheel cylinder piston seizes up because water gets in and sits there. Also the threads of the adjuster rust up. I have found that if I start with a new brake assembly and take apart the wheel cylinder, grease the area under the boot, seal the boot and push rod with Hi Temp RTV, the last much longer. I also grease the adjuster and pivot points and they don't seize up. Keep in mind that disc brake calipers need maintenance too, the piston can seize up the same way and there are no strong springs to release the brakes.

Before you convert, you need to make sure there is enough clearance between the mounting flange on the axle and the trailer frame. Also if you don't have them yet you will need flex lines to the calipers so they can more to apply and release the brakes. Lastly you have to add the wire for the back up solenoid to your trailer harness (probably replace the whole mess). Make sure that solenoid is grounded or else you won't be able to back up....

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Well, the actuator that is on the trailer has an electronic reverse solenoid, but it isn't wired in. I suppose I could try bleeding out the lines on the existing system to see if maybe there is too much air in the lines. I think the coupler is the UFP A-60 model, so surely I can get a new master cylinder for it to see if the system still functions. Otherwise, I'd just assume not throw parts at a drum brake system that hasn't been operative in many years in lieu of just upgrading the whole thing to a modern caliper system.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

The only thing you have to do to your current master cylinder is to remove the residual valve at the rear of the master cylinder.

 

[Daleg70]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I agree that the titan 60 can be pretty easily rebuilt if needed -- and adapted to Discs.
I would not go through the hassle of drums either -- but if you are "older" as some of us are, you have seen your fair share of drums and in fresh water they should not be that bad.
I went from Tie-down to Kodiak -- (I am of course in salt water and the Tie-down was not good in salt-- will not have them again)
My Kodiak discs have been on there about five years now. I have a Titan Model 60 on my trailer also.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

Is Titan the same as UFP? Well, I'm not quite in the "older" age bracket yet, but I haven't owned a vehicle old enough to require drum brakes. I have driven many with them though, lol. Again, I don't KNOW that the drum brakes have anything currently wrong with them, I just know the actuator/coupler slides back with little/no resistance and the brake reservoir is full. I can always try to bleed it and see what happens.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I just know the actuator/coupler slides back with little/no resistance and the brake reservoir is full. I can always try to bleed it and see what happens.

Sounds like your master cylinder is bad.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

The only thing you have to do to your current master cylinder is to remove the residual valve at the rear of the master cylinder.

In order to do what? Sorry, I just didn't see what this procedure was relating to.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

In order to do what? Sorry, I just didn't see what this procedure was relating to.

WARNING: WHEN REPLACING DRUM BRAKES WITH DISC BRAKES , and using your preexisting SURGE BRAKE COUPLER , the brake coupler WILL REQUIRE MODIFICATION . If you are replacing drum brakes with disc brakes on a trailer , and are using your existing surge brake coupler, there are some modifications that will be required of the brake coupler for successful operation with disc brakes.
[ A ] First it will be necessary to remove your residual valve in the master cylinder .WARNING: Attempting to puncture the residual valve may damage components internal to the master cylinder. It is only recommended that you remove the residual valve instead of puncturing it!

[ B ] Second the brass tubing adapter at the rear of the master cylinder should have a minimum orifice diameter of .0625" or larger.

[ C ] Reversing solenoid valve will normally be required.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

The residual valve is used for drum brakes to keep a small amount of pressure in the lines. If you have the valve in there with disk brakes, it will cause the brakes to drag and overheat.

I love my disk brakes. There is no way I would ever go back to drum brakes including electric. I had way more problems with the electric brakes on a horse trailer I had than my Kodiaks and the horse trailer brakes never got wet.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Trailer Brakes - Which Option

I gotcha, I was planning on buying a whole new coupler/actuator. I wasn't aware that modifying the master cylinder was possible. Of course, that assumes that I have a functioning master cylinder to begin with, lol.