Trim relay box is killing me!!!

[brandonw409]

I have a 1980 johnson 115 (J115TLCSA). I thought one of the trim relays went out since it wouldn't go up but it would go down and the relay buzzed when the trim switch was pressed. Replaced both relays and still won't go up. Started moving the plug the relay goes into while my brother held down the trim up switch and it started going but the relay started smoking and smells like it might be burning up. So I assume there is something wrong in the wiring or the plug the relay goes into. I go to Johnson's website and look at the parts break down and the relay box doesn't look like what I have on my motor at all. The person that had the motor before me has screwed around with everything in there so I guess they switched out the old box and hard wired this one in there....I don't really know what I am looking at! also, in the parts break down there is an unpictured item called "junction box and cover". is this actually what I'm dealing with? And do I have to buy the whole freaking box to get the relay plug replaced? Thanks!

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

Is there a switch on the engine cowl? If so unplug it, it could be stuck in the up or down position. Pressing the binnicle trim could be like pressing up and down at the same time. This would "let the smoke out".

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

Brandon, Normally a PT unit of that vintage would have two solenoids, and a three wire PTT motor. Newer PTT units will have a two wire motor and two relays. Sometimes replacement PTT motor will have changed from three wire to two wire, and you must install the relays, as well. You might check to see that you have the correct PTT motor and relay or solenoid set.

Solenoids and relays are similar, however, solenoids are open when not energized, and relays are grounded when not energized. You can see why this would cause problems, if the system does not have all the correct pieces.

Do you think the PO installed a new PTT motor with the old solenoids? Or is it possible he installed a new PTT motor and relays some time ago, then it broke, and he installed an older motor, that required solenoids?

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

You may not be looking at the right box. It is usually mounted on the inside back of the transom. The one for your engine (3-wire motor) has a single solenoid, wired for the up only. The down goes direct through the switch only. If you have the correct box, there should be a wiring diagram pasted to the inside of the cover.... The later two wire systems use two relays in a box mounted on the back of the powerhead exhaust cover.

 

[brandonw409]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

So it's been a while! I did a bunch of research and figured out that the wiring for this trim system is all jacked up! I have a three wire motor which requires the box with one solenoid. This thing had a box mounted on the back of the motor with two relays in it. So I did months of searching and would you believe I found a guy on Ebay selling the whole box with wiring and everything for $40. To make things better, he lived just two towns over from me! So I bought it, picked it up, and installed the unit. I had to splice some existing wiring and find a place to mount it but I got it done. Up and down worked fine. The next morning I loaded it up and my friend and I headed to the sabine river. We got there really early because we hadn't ran the boat in a while and figured it would take a while to start. I hit the up button for the trim to get the transom saver off and what do you know...nothing happens. Just a clicking of the solenoid but trim motor doesn't run or anything. So I figure maybe during the drive some connection had come loose. I found a couple bolts loose but it didn't make a difference. I had a new solenoid in the truck because I was going to build my own trim box until I found this one, so I installed it and still same thing. solenoid clicks good but trim motor doesn't run. Oh, and by the way trimming down works fine which is driving me crazy! So since the solenoid is clicking, I figure it is ok and the trim switch is ok. The only thing I could think of is where I spliced in the motor wires with the motor wires going into the box. So I get pissed enough to cut my splice and stick the wires directly on the battery. And there we go! Trim works fine up and down!! But for the record my splice looked good! I used butt connectors, heat shrink, and e-tape. We went ahead and went fishing and didn't catch anything! Got home and respliced my wires and cleaned up the solenoid and connectors and this damn thing is still just clicking and will not go up! This trim issue has been haunting me since the day I got this boat and it is driving me nuts!! How does it work when placed directly on the battery but not when it runs through the box? I am pretty sure it isn't the switch because down works fine and when I hit up the solenoid clicks so it's doing its job. I don't think it is the solenoid because it is clicking and energizing like it should. I know it is'nt my splice bacause I have done it twice and I have done the best job possible! Is it the motor maybe? any suggestions other than save up money and buy a new boat? I would if I could!! Sorry ran so long. It's nice to tbe able to share this with people who understand! My wife asks me what's wrong and I get 30 seconds into the story and she already has a blank stare on her face!! lol

 

[rednekbowfisher]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

on the older 3 wire units with the solenoid there should be a ground wire hooked to the solenoid sounds like thats your issue now since you went from relays to the solenoid. the down will work fine but for the up function it will have to run through the solenoid

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

you cannot use the two square relays with the 3 wire trim motor, well you can but it will require a complete rewire of the relay control box.
the relays may be grounded at rest so be careful how you wire them.(most are) have you checked for a voltage drop acrossed the solinoid load terminals while the switch is depressed?have you made sure the trim motor black wire has a solid engine ground with at least a 10GA wire?
typically not much amprerage is drawn when running down,thats why some models had no down trim solinoid, up requires more amperage than the control circuits can handle so a solinoid makes the high current bridge when asked to by the up control circuit.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

Rodbolt gave a nice description of the old 3 wire system. Critical components in this system are the handle switch, solenoid and the fuse in the box. Those old in-line fuse holders tended to crud up with rust, etc, so you may not have good contact through the fuse. Check it out. You might want to check the handle switch for proper operation. Usually there is a 3 prong plug in the trim harness about 2' from the control box. You could switch the green and blue wires (up will be down, and vice versa) just to see if the "up" part of the switch is the problem. Usually there is a wiring diagram inside the old trim box covers-you might want to double check all the connections so they agree with the factory diagram. The battery leads to the trim box on my 79 were about the same size as those for the starter under the cowling-huge-maybe even 8 gauge.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

i had to build my 3 wire box. used a starter solenoids, went for overkill and used a starter solenoid, for both up and down. used a waterproof, gray junction box from HD.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

i had to build my 3 wire box. used a starter solenoids, went for overkill and used a starter solenoid, for both up and down. used a waterproof, gray junction box from HD.

Easiest fix in this instance would have been to switch to a 2 wire motor and use the relay box on the engine. The motors are interchangeable.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

i had to prove i could do it. at that time did not a 2 wire motor.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

i had to prove i could do it. at that time did not a 2 wire motor.

'Scuseme, I was referring to brandonw409's motor/problem.

 

[86 century]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

The book says it should be a three wire one solenoid.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

....................the wiring for this trim system is all jacked up! ............This thing had a box mounted on the back of the motor with two relays in it. ..............

That's what he had to start with - a relay box for a two wire PT&T motor, mounted on the engine.

 

[brandonw409]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

You all are confusing the situation! lol. I have rewired this trim system right back to the way it is supposed to be. well, of course with a bunch of splicing wires here and there but it is wired up the original way. I press up and the solenoid only clicks with no trim motor sound or movement. I press down it works fine. I have replaced the solenoid...same problem. I have redone my splice going to the trim motor...same problem. When I cut my splice off to redo it I put the trim motor wires directly on the battery and it works fine. I was talking to a guy that works at ritter at home (he was wearing a bass cat jacket so I thought maybe he would know something about boats) he thinks it's the switch on the remote control. I don't think it is, because when I press up it makes the solenoid click it just doesn't do anything after that. I am going nuts over this issue. I really just want someone to tell me it isn't the trim motor and that it's a wiring issue. I really don't want to spend a lot of money buying a new motor or dealing with the hassel of replacing it!!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

if the motor runs, both ways. connected directly to the battery, it is in the wiring.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim relay box is killing me!!!

..... I press up and the solenoid only clicks with no trim motor sound or movement. .........I press down it works fine. I have replaced the solenoid...same problem. I have redone my splice going to the trim motor...same problem. When I cut my splice off to redo it I put the trim motor wires directly on the battery and it works fine. I really just want someone to tell me it isn't the trim motor and that it's a wiring issue.

It's a wiring issue.

Check for continuity from the solenoid to the motor with your ohmmeter. If you have continuity, then do a voltage drop test. Test the solenoid output.

Make sure that the primary wiring from the battery through the solenoid to the PT&T motor is at least 12 gauge.