Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

[archcycle]

1990 Evinrude 140hp

I've been having an intermittent problem trimming down that became a permanent problem last night. It started about a week ago in the driveway- I always go up a little and seat it back down on the trailering bracket before driving it away and it didn't want to go back down. Poked around at things (batteries, wires, no tools used) for a minute and tried again and it worked and I went out with no problems.

Then it happened to me on the water. I wiggled the ground on the battery, and tried both the transom switch and the throttle switch and then back to the transom switch and it went down, no more problems the rest of the day. I have no idea if this was related to it starting to work again.

Then last night on the water it did it again, and after banging around on things and fiddling with the ground again it popped on and came down enough for me to get home, but I couldn't get it to move again. Once the up just starting running on its own and it went all the way up while I was under way. Jostled the switch around then unplugged the negative, plugged it back in and all was ok. I'm just now considering that it's odd that it kept going up past trim into tilt while at cruise speed.. but that never happened again. Probably 2-3 months ago.

-

So here's what I've done about it so far:

I began by breaking the arm off the sending unit. I was looking around for issues and came to the trim sender. The arm was hanging out in the middle of nowhere and the spring on the back was hanging loose, so I gently pushed it one way and no movement, then gently the other way and the arm broke right off from little more than a touch. The action behind the arm is highly corroded the plastic in awful shape. So it's going to be hard diagnosing the sending unit with no arm on it right? Do I need this thing to operate and troubleshoot?

When I push the down button there is a barely audible click and a slight squishing noise that sputters as long as the switch is pushed. This was the case before and after the sending unit incident.

I checked my non-OMC manual and the wiring looks good to me, but it suggests the trim down pump relief valve or the expansion relief valve could cause an up but no down situation, however I don't see where those are.

Could someone shed some light on this or some troubleshooting advice? I really see the worthlessness of non OMC manuals now...

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

The little black sender on the port transom bracket is just there to signal the trim gauge and has absolutely nothing to do with the mechanical operation of the PT&T. It's a variable resistor that only functions within the 15 degree range of the trim.

Most problems with the PT&T have to do with low level of fluid in the reservoir, and/or air in the system, so start by filling the reservoir and bleeding the system, after you assure that the manual release is torqued to specifications.

You may want to confirm that the battery is fully charged and that all of the connections are clean and tight, especially the ground wires.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

Update:

Unbolted the sender and dremel wire brushed the surfaces for the ground wire and the ground connector and bolted it back on. No change in symptom.

Then removed the sender entirely since it's got to have some work done to it and wasn't doing much as it was. The harness with black & white wires that went to something in the motor either had the white wire broken off right at the connector, or I broke it off. Hard to say. Although most people working on 20 year old salt water motors are probably aware I still feel like it's got to be said- I'm not incompetent or careless! this stuff is falling apart in my hands! Anyway, pulled the contacts out of the connector and they are going to be no problem to brush off and reattach the wires in the original rubber boot.

No change in the symptoms. I have no idea whether I broke off that white wire or if it was already that way. Could that being detached be an issue?

And do I even need this unit to trim down during this troubleshooting?

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

The little black sender on the port transom bracket is just there to signal the trim gauge and has absolutely nothing to do with the mechanical operation of the PT&T. It's a variable resistor that only functions within the 15 degree range of the trim.

Most problems with the PT&T have to do with low level of fluid in the reservoir, and/or air in the system, so start by filling the reservoir and bleeding the system, after you assure that the manual release is torqued to specifications.

You may want to confirm that the battery is fully charged and that all of the connections are clean and tight, especially the ground wires.

(Posted same time as me)

Thanks glad to know that thing is useless. One less part to buy!

I tried the manual release earlier but it wasn't budging. Hit it with some PB blast and will spray it again before bed and will try to turn it again in the morning. If it doesn't, more PB and if still nothing my neighbor has an impact wrench.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

That thing is really in there good. Hopefully this evening. Also there was a small retaining ring just hanging out in there, not retaining anything, but sort of wedged in at an angle. Pulled it out of there of course. What's its deal? Does it have to go back? I don't recall seeing mention of one in the manual.

 

[JWhit]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

to get my manual release screw free i used a large screwdrive straight in, then a large wrench to turn that as close as i could get. that will allow you to move assuming nothing is jammed.

as for motor, is it spinning when you try to go up or down? if not either have bad connections or needs rebuilding. i did one on an I/O motor and it was similiar to a starter, with springs and brushes inside that wear out.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

to get my manual release screw free i used a large screwdrive straight in, then a large wrench to turn that as close as i could get. that will allow you to move assuming nothing is jammed.

as for motor, is it spinning when you try to go up or down? if not either have bad connections or needs rebuilding. i did one on an I/O motor and it was similiar to a starter, with springs and brushes inside that wear out.

The solenoid clicks when I press the down switch and then there no noise except a barely audible gurgling as long as I hold the switch, so no it's just spinning. It's odd because when it got stuck up on the water the other day it wouldn't do anything, then when it clicked on it went for as long as I held the down button (which wasn't too long because we were at a very shallow dock at a restaurant) but then it never worked again once I let it up.

Either way I will be letting the pressure out, but does this seem like a bleed issue? If I had an air bubble in there would the motor at least be running/spinning?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

Clean the wiring first, then do the fluid. The only reason to initially loosen the manual release is so you can raise the motor to get the fluid in.

When you use the manual release, you should only turn it out two turns. There is a clip to keep you from turning it out too far and damaging the valve.

You should consider investing in a factory service manual if you want to do your own maintenance.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

Clean the wiring first, then do the fluid. The only reason to initially loosen the manual release is so you can raise the motor to get the fluid in.

When you use the manual release, you should only turn it out two turns. There is a clip to keep you from turning it out too far and damaging the valve.

You should consider investing in a factory service manual if you want to do your own maintenance.

I don't see a clip on the parts diagram at boats.net. Are you referring to the lock ring that fell out of there? Also I do plan on buying a factory service manual to replace my aftermarket pdf one now. My west marine only carries Seloc so I have to order..

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

PROGRESS!

I got the manual release loose with no problems with the impact wrench. Dropped it all the way, closed it, ran the motor up, and it went down!

Then I ran it up again and it didn't want to go down, so I released it again and the same happened. Somehow I didn't pick up any fluid today.. Guess I just really didn't think this was going to do it. Will get off the couch and go get some as soon as I know what to do next..

So now how do I do the bleeding? I did some reading and found lots of contradicting info. My lame manual's PTT repair section says to see regular maintenance for bleeding instructions, where it describes why it's important to keep your fluid topped off and where the fluid top off plug is.

 

[GatorMike]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

I may be mis reading this so ignore if what I suggest makes no sense. Are you sure it isn't just a bad relay? If the motor will go up but not down switch the 2 relays, if it goes down but not up after the switch you just have a bad relay.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

I may be mis reading this so ignore if what I suggest makes no sense. Are you sure it isn't just a bad relay? If the motor will go up but not down switch the 2 relays, if it goes down but not up after the switch you just have a bad relay.

I'm having a hard time suspecting the relay since when I push the down switch the motor clicks and then gurgles. It must be getting some power, and last night I discovered it works every time that I bleed it down, close, and run up, but only goes down once. So that's gonna get checked first this evening, then on to the electrical if it doesn't do it. I hate how the little things like a stuck bolt can make a process like this drag over days... well that and work.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

So I've been trying to bleed it but so far it's no good. All the way up, open the fill valve and put some in (it's full and not taking more now), then try to drop it. If it won't drop, open the manual release and let it go all the way down, close the valve and up. That's been my process and it's intermittent at best and sometimes just nothing at all. Once it went up and down through the trim part several times but as soon as I got to tilt the down was gone again. Probably sent it up and down 30 times.

Am I doing something wrong here?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

Close the manual release to specifications.

have the boat as level as possible.

Raise the motor and support it.

Remove the fill plug and fill until fluid runs out.

Replace the fill plug.

Release the support and cycle the motor up and down several times, helping as needed.

Repeat the above until no more fluid can be added.

Be sure to support the motor whenever any plugs or valves are opened if the motor is raised.

If you trailered the motor without using the trail locks or stored it tilted up without the trail locks, you may have hydraulic lock which will require that you service the reverse lock check valve.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

Release the support and cycle the motor up and down several times, helping as needed.

The problem here is after using the manual release to drop it, I run it up, and then it's hit or miss whether it will go back down. Unless its just been run all the way up the down won't go. Most times it won't just go down so I can cycle it. It is usually requiring the manual release to get it back down in order to run it back up and try the down again. It is full of fluid and won't take more.

If you trailered the motor without using the trail locks or stored it tilted up without the trail locks, you may have hydraulic lock which will require that you service the reverse lock check valve.

Can this be ruled out by the fact that sometimes it will go down? When it starts to go down, if I stop, it typically won't keep going, but if I keep it running it will run fully to the bottom.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

Checked the relays, both working fine.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Trim won't go down 1990 Evinrude 140

I FIXED IT!!

I'm off work today so figured with the new pump on the way I'd just run it upwards and mess with things until I burned the motor out, or the d*** thing started working

Well after about 10 minutes of running it up and trial and error getting it to drop down on it's own weight by opening the manual relief (motor not running of course cause it wouldn't work), I figured out that if I ran it up, then manual released and made it go down faster by tapping the up switch as it went down (it would get stuck at spots on the manual down and wouldn't move until i pushed it down by hand or tapped the up switch), ran it up just momentarily in very brief and fast succession about 5x, if after those up taps i quickly hit down, the down would occasionally take!

So I did this for about 5 minutes and it slowly started to engage the trim motor down more often after the up button taps until it got 100%! Then ran it full up and down many many times adding fluid (or at least trying to, it seemed full but wanted to be completely certain) until I was satisfied it was fixed.

Can someone make sense of what happened here? Clogged up valve somewhere? Hyrdolock? Hopefully it doesn't happen again.. But I'm off to do some fishing and test it on the water and pray that I don't have to make use of my towing service!