Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

[Joe Sea Ray]

Am a newby to this boat (Model 260 / 350 CI). I changed out my impellor (etc.) in Lower Unit, due to overheating. Upon trying to re-mate: Put gear lever in Forward, verified Lwr Unit was in Forward, etc. Upon trying to mate: L.U. stopped within 1/2" or 3/4" of full mate. My questions: <br />1. Do I also have to visually verify shift shaft is pointing forward? (If so, can I see it by looking up into Upper Unit from underneath it?) <br />2. These old Type 1 drives have a "pre-load pin" on top of the main (vertical) drive shaft in Lower Unit. Should the pin spring be VERY stiff? (mine is very stiff.) Might the pin be the cause of the problem??<br />3. Any other suggestions??<br />Had no luck searching the forum archive. This is my first posting -- Much thanks!

 

[ziggy]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

joe, i'm no pro, but i have have my modle 1 lower off three times. the first time it took me 50 trys i hate to admit to get it on. what a bummer. two things i did to help my self out was one, load the prop locked in fwd. ccw i think with a bunge cord. the other was to use rubber bands to hold the shift shaft in the upper in place, to keep it pointed straight fwd and loaded upwards. when the drive started mateing i just broke the rubber bands to remove them from the shift shaft. i know it seems like a stupid way. but the 2nd and 3rd time doin it i hit it in 3 or 4 trys......darn lowers are heavy too...have at least two folk to help do the deed....

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

What Ziggy says but....<br />To put in foreward turn the shift shaft cw & the prop shaft ccw & maintain ccw pressure....<br />To get thet last little bit you need to turn the prop shaft ccw a little more to get the splines to engage between the lower & upper.... <br /> Under no circumstances do you force them together! It will result in damage!.. <br />If the upper is still attached to the engine as long as the helm is in fwd. no need to worry about it....<br />That should do it, the preload should have no part in your problem...<br />Hope this helps....<br />BTW, welcome to iboats .....JK

 

[Bondo]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

At 1/2" to 3/4",....... You might be coming up against the Water Tube,.......<br /><br />It's Never Easy to do,.... There's alot of Stuff to get Lined-Up All at Once..........<br /><br />If the Pre-Load Pin collapses, even Stiffly..... It's Fine...

 

[Joe Sea Ray]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

Much thanks to Ziggy Stardust, Haut Medoc, and Bondo: all of you were helpful. <br />Bondo: Am hoping you are right -- On my first visit to re-install, I missed a point in the SELOC maintenance manual, and kept the copper water tube in the Lower Unit, rather than up in Upper Unit -- Have since learned that is not proper. Also: I hit the pin with a small hammer and it barely budges: Still OK???<br />Haut: Yes, Upper Unit still attached to engine/boat.<br />Ziggy: Thanks re bungee idea. Will have older son with me this time, rather than 10 year old and his buddy last time!!<br />Hope to go to storage yard today, if wife stays calm! <br />Thanks again: keep ideas coming! Great forum.

 

[Joe Sea Ray]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

"P.S.", for Haut and ALL: Even though you helped me learn it's not an issue (since Upper is still attached to engine), per my orig question: I can see the direction of this shift shaft by looking up into the Upper Unit, correct? And then I can manually move it, correct?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

No, you can see it on the outside at the base of the bell housing though....JK

 

[Joe Sea Ray]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

Good folks, I snuck away yesterday down to the storage yard and tried again. No luck, but this time got about 3/8" away from a full mating. Questions:<br />1. Thanks to Ziggy and Haut I found how to see the head of the upper shift shaft: it was aimed about 20 or 30 degress to port, rather than straight ahead. Moving the steering wheel did not move it. Binding? Suggestions?<br />2. On second review, the preload pin on top of the Lower drive shaft DOES NOT MOVE AT ALL. It should, correct? Anyone with experience with this??<br />3. On peering up into the Upper from the ground, found the remnants of what looked to be like a oil seal. I figured prior owner or mechanic might have lost/left one up there. The rubber part ooks like same length of the oil or water seal up on top of the drive shaft (near the splines), but it also had a minute spring, I assumed from in the seal. The new seals seem all neoprene, etc. Thoughts / ideas?<br /><br />4. Ziggy, I used your tip re wiring the head of top shift shaft -- thanks!<br /><br />P.S. My progress from 3/4" (gap) to 3/8" came after removing the seal debris (item #3 above.)<br /><br />Much thanks / HELP!!

 

[Alumarine]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

Upper shift shaft should be aligned correctly when gearshift is in forward. I don't think it has anything to do with the steering wheel.

 

[MRS]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

What ever you do make sure the little o-ring that gos between the upper and lower units is still there.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

joe sea ray, the shift shaft won't move by turning the steering wheel. i moves when the remote is shifted from fwd, to nuetral, to rerverse. the remote needs to be in fwd. the shift shaft in the upper is realy 2 pieces it seems. a shift shaft assy. which is connected to the shift shaft lever assy. which would be the upper part of the shift shaft and the (lower) shift shaft which is what ya can see from the bottom of the upper. these two shift shafts on mine model 1 can seperate. i can spin my shift shaft(lower one seen from the bottom of the upper)360*. i don't know if this is right, but that's what mine does. so ya need to find out which way the shift shaft and the shift shaft assy. fit together proper. when i push my shift shaft(lower one seen from the bottom) up(in) to mate with the shift shaft(not seen from the bottom of the upper)i can feel when the two mate proper as it drops in a little bit more and feels more solid. also to confirm i have the two shafts mated proper i had someone else operate the remote while i keep the shift shafts mated. from neutral it will move a little bit left and a little right. same amount of motion. thats the point where i use the rubberbands. i am trying to keep the shift shaft(the one i can see and feel) up and in and mated to the shift shaft assy. that i can't see or feel from the bottom of the upper. this is where i use my rubber bands at, once i find this spot)i don't know if these shift shafts on my drive need repair, and i suspect that i shouldnt have this problem (the shift shaft and shift shaft assy. seperateing enough to allow the shift shaft (lower) to spin 360*)but i do and that's how i overcome it. <br />the seal yer seeing and spring and jazz is the lowest seal ya have on the upper. there is also a o-ring on the lower drive shaft. up by the pin. this 0-ring will be peeled off the shaft when removeing the lower. usually. it will be stuck inside the bottom oil seal of the upper. there has been debate on whether this o-ring is nesseasy. apperently the o-ring groove is a prime place for the lower drive shaft to break. that o-ring was eliimnated on an alpha 1 drive. anyways, if yer seein the spring from the seal in the upper. that seal needs to be replaced too i'd think. it's not hard and is problably i'd guess about the only thig ya could service about the upper from the outside. if that seal was fried, check the lower drive shaft for wear at where the seal and lower drive shaft mate. it'll be the ring around the drive shaft that ya see just below the lower drive shaft 0-ring. if ya got one and ya can feel it, that's wore out too. the lower drive shaft that is. <br /><br />my preload pin is rigid with the lower drive shaft also. <br /><br />hang in there it will go back together. as bondo says. there are many things that need to line up for it to happen and when it does, it'll be like a hot knife thru butter...i think hangin up on the water tube was the hardest obsicale for me. but i will never know as ya can't see em mate when it wont.....

 

[FreeBeeTony]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

I think it would be easier if the upper is off the boat. I find it easier with the lower on some sort of stand and lowering the upper down onto the lower. I think you have more control this way........<br /><br />Just my opinion..........

 

[tommays]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

<br /><br /><br />different drive BUT a stand is the only way to fly its just to hard to line everthing up and NOT have the quad ring that seals the upper and lower LEAK OIL<br /><br />tommays

 

[Joe Sea Ray]

Re: Ttrouble Mating Lower Unit: '78 Type 1 Merc

Folks, having just started on this forum on Saturday, am blown-away -- and VERY appreciative -- of all these inputs. Hugely helpful:<br /><br />+ Ziggy / All: my apologies about my foul-up on my Item 1: I meant "shift handle", not steering wheel. (I was also lubeing the steering stuff -- hence my brainfade..) My son was at helm, and he pushed it forward (out of neutral) at least ~4 or 5 inches to the initial detent -- but no movement of the shift shaft (that is -- the upper most shaft, that has a little receiver that holds the top of the shaft mounted in Upper.) <br />Re where the shift shafts meet: I was able to see where they meet pretty clearly -- under the gimbal housing (I think that's it's name), when the upper unit was tilted full-up. <br />Will re-read your input several times: seems you might be saying there is ANOTHER shift shaft coupling up further in the Gimbal or Bell housing.) <br />Re the seal debris I found: I / the drive shaft probably somehow wrecked that Upper seal during attempts to mate. Re the health of the lower drive shaft: I remember a TINY ring scoring / scratch below the O-ring groove -- are you saying the drive shaft is kaput???? <br /><br />+ Tommays & Babylon: I'm going with your suggestion re building a stand. Any quickie drawings avail on-line?? <br />Tommays: so the gear oil is kept ABOVE that driveshaft coupling, and also down where the forward/reverse gearing is, correct?? (Would seem like such a better design to bath it all in lube, but then there would be problems with oil leaks where the Upper/Lower mate, correct?)<br /><br />To all: much thanks! Another buddy says best to take off the Upper to check for proper lubing and alignment up there, so.....work lies ahead. Will research the manuals, re Upper.