Turns over cant get her to fire up

[atomb]

To start of I do have a mercruiser manual. But im flailing/failing. My first question is can you guys have a look at how i have my spark wires going to the cylinders and tell me if im correct. I seem to have spark and fuel so i feel like either my timing is messed ..


My valve adjusting has not been too succesful and i have been following the book but im a human monkey so i guess i probably did something in err. heres a pic of the wires and a pic of how i wired her up.

Second question --Valve adjusting as per the instructions i get her to tdc and specifically tighten down the ex and Intake on the first and continue on with spoecific valves... then it says rote crank one full revolution which seeems like it gets it to the exact same spot tdc on number one but it wants me to be on TDC #4 --BTW this is a pain because i have to jump the starter solenoid i\ -i have not enough belt tension to crank the alternator nut and make the crank rotate..the alternator bracket is maxed out..so hence im using the starter solenoid to do this. rewind for a minute as per reassemblly the manuall says torque valves to 20 lbs and no adjustment needed after that but I got no valve movemnet at all when i did this then i wen to valve adjustment of engine not running and yes i got movement but seemed a bit tight to me. I had a buddy mechanic come over and set the distributor yesterday and said that all sounded find in terms of not having compression at the time ... since then i have switched the spark wires too alternate cylinders .

I hopoe you guys can fooloow if not ill try to answer any questions you may have to move forward .. thanks for any suggestions Im pretty frustrated its been a long journetyy with this motor. I feel like im really close
I have the camera handy so if there is something you want to see please just ask... no naked pic requests I pretty ugly:redface:

 

[cedarjunki]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

need to get those valves adjusted correctly..... if you havnt bent a pushrod yet :/


pull all the sparkplugs out first, then you should be able to spin it by hand.....
if the tensioner is maxed out get a new or shorter belt.


if you adjust the valves by the book and just torque them, shes gonna clatter, or restrict movement.


Valve Adjustment
Engine Not Running
With valve cover removed, adjust valves when lifter is on low part of camshaft lobe, as
follows:
1. Crank engine with starter or turn over in normal direction of rotation until mark on
torsional damper lines up with center ?0? mark on timing tab, and engine is in No. 1 firing
position. This may be determined by placing fingers on No. 1 valve as mark. If valves
move as mark comes up to timing tab, engine is in No.4 firing position and should be
turned over one more time to reach No. 1 position.


2. With engine in No. 1 firing position as determined above, the following valves may be
adjusted:
? No. 1 Cylinder - Exhaust and Intake
? No. 2 Cylinder - Intake
? No. 3 Cylinder - Exhaust
? No. 4 Cylinder - Intake
3. Loosen adjusting nut until lash is felt at push rod, then tighten adjusting nut until all lash
is removed. This can be determined by moving push rod up and down while turning
adjusting nut until all play is removed.
72300
4. Hydraulic lifters can be adjusted by tightening adjustment nut an additional 3/4-turn.
Valve lash should be checked after engine has run and reached operating temperature.
5. Crank engine one revolution until pointer ?0? mark and torsional damper mark are again
in alignment. This is No. 4 firing position. With engine in this position, the following valves
may be adjusted:
? No. 2 Cylinder - Exhaust
? No. 3 Cylinder - Intake
? No. 4 Cylinder - Exhaust
6. Repeat steps 3-4 to adjust other valves.
7. Install Distributor cap, spark plug wires and coil lead.
8. Install rocker arm cover; torque to 40 lb-in. (4.5 Nm).
Engine Running
Following procedure should be completed only if readjustment is required.
1. Run engine until it reaches normal operating temperature, then remove valve cover.
2. With engine running at idle, loosen valve rocker arm nut until valve rocker arm starts to
clatter.
3. Turn rocker arm nut down slowly until clatter just stops. This is zero lash position.
4. Tighten nut 1/4 additional turn and pause 10 seconds until engine runs smoothly. Repeat
additional 1/4 turns, pausing 10 seconds each time, until nut has been tightened 3/4 turn
from zero lash position.

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

YR? EGNINE? MAKE?

20 ft-lbs to tight Holding valves open causeing no compression. Loosen all the rockers, then follow the manual toadjust them again except don't adjust to 20 ft-lbs. Bring them down to zero lash then 3/4 turn more. I personally only go a 1/4 turn with no problem and no noise.


The messy way is to loosen them all. Start with #1 on tdc compression stroke. Run the the rockers down until just snug. Then start the engine valve cover off. If you hear a ticking noise go though and adjust each rocker down to take up slop. Only go about a 1/4 turn at a time. this is old school adjusting. I do it this way on any adjustable hydraulic cam. It's messy but it works. It also gives you a chance to make sure each rocker and valve is get plenty of oil.

P.S. When running the nut down with engine running, wiggle the rocker as you do it. When the rocker has little to no wiggle go to the next rocker. And doing it this way you go right down the line, starting at #1 working your way to #4.

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

I like that old school way of adjusting Im going to give that a shot ..... how about the spark wires are they in the correct places????



Okay it sounds like i should be able to get her running even if the valve adjustnmet isnt perfect so im thinking that the real issue here is probably my timing...

yeah i had no compression at 20 lbs --I knew that was wrong ...Than I worked the manual just as u copied and pasted --I was getting some action but still felt tight... at this point it still wasnt firing up and i feel like I have a timing issue....

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

IF the rotor is pointing to the #1 terminal when #1 is at tdc of the COMPRESSION stroke then yes it would be wired correct. If the rotor is pointing at another terminal, you have two choices. 1. pull dist and turn it where it needs to be. or 2. play ring around the rosy with the wires. Meaning move the wires 1 post left or right pending on which post the rotor is pointing at. But yes the firing order is right.

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

give me a second im getting a pic of the rotor as we speak

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

heres a pic of the rotor orientation what can you make of this?

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

When you took the pic was #1 on tdc of the comp stroke. IF SO YOU ARE 180 DEGREES OUT OF TIME. Which if that is the case you will have to pull the dist and turn it 180 degrees then put it back. REMEMBER when ever you pull it it will turn slightly. So if you need to turn it 180, turn it 180 from the out position so when it is in it will point in the right spot. In the pic it is pointed at #4.

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

Wires are not long enough to play ringaround the rosy

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

no i im sure that im not at tdc at #1 so Im guessingthe pic is worthless....thanks so much for the help I really appreciate t5his

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

When you took the pic was #1 on tdc of the comp stroke. IF SO YOU ARE 180 DEGREES OUT OF TIME. Which if that is the case you will have to pull the dist and turn it 180 degrees then put it back. REMEMBER when ever you pull it it will turn slightly. So if you need to turn it 180, turn it 180 from the out position so when it is in it will point in the right spot. In the pic it is pointed at #4.

Im goiung to turn her over and put her into tdc and see where the rotor is located.. Question if I need to readjust the distributor --obviously pull the distrib take off clamp and then restab distributor t so that rotor is pointed at #1 m ...i must mnake sure im at tdc while doing this... its rainming and the nboat cover is a hassle so this might take a little time..thank you...

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

When you get #1 on tdc compression stroke and that is a must. It HAS to be on compression stroke ( both valves closed piston at the top). Take another pic for us to look at and I can see if it is right then.

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

ok so heres a pic of tdc #1 with rotor Im thinking that shes pointing at no.3 so she needs to be turned just need validation please thanks again you guys have been terrific. she still needs to be restabbed correct? Sorry im a little dense when it comes some things I tend to over think it when its usually simpler than i thinnk.

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

No not #3 it's pointing to #2. The rotor rotates in a clockwise rotation. When I say #2 I am reffering to the post on the cap not the cylinder. So you are post off. You can either pull, turn and restab the dist to get it to point at the post for #1 or you can move the wires counter clockwise one post and try it. The it is right now you are probablly experincing all sort of noises aren't you. Mainly popping thu the exhaust?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

Position of the rotor at any given time is meaningless unless you know what it's relationship is to crankshaft position. When you have the engine rotated so the timing mark is at "0" you could have 1) #1 cylinder at the top of the EXHAUST stroke, or 2) #1 cylinder is at the top of the COMPRESSION stroke. So just because you have the timing mark at "0" and the rotor is pointed at #1 plug wire does not mean it is right. You could be on the exhaust stroke. The key to understandiing valve adjustment is that each valve must be fully closed when the adjustment is made. Since hydraulic valve lifters are used in this engine, the initial lash adjustment is to remove the initial mechanical slop that occurs between the cam and lifter, the lifter and push rod, the push rod and rocker arm and rocker arm and valve stem. The 1/4 turn, 1/4 turn, 1/4 turn then sets the plunger depth in the hydraulic lifter body. When running, oil pressure in the lifter maintains zero lash.

With the valve cover off, turn the engine so both valves on #1 cylinder are closed and the timing mark sits at "0". There is no question then -- you have TDC on the compression stroke. From that point you can follow the adjustment sequence for the other valves. But before you rotate the engine, check the position of the distributor rotor. It should be pointing at #1 plug wire. You can rotate the distributor housing to accomplish that. If it is too far out to correct by rotating the housing you pull the distributor, rotate the shaft in the direction needed and set the assembly back in place. You may need to turn the oil pump drive a bit to allow the distributor to drop back down fully.

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

Siver, he is triing to get it started, This has nothing to do with adjusting the vavles. He did put #1 at tdc on the comp stroke. The rotor is pointing at #2 plug wire. I've been working on Chevy engines for over 30 yrs. Know the pre-injection engines pretty darn well. Can get power out of them some people does not know is there when I can. I've got a old truck with a mid 80's 305 pushing over 350 hp( close to 400)

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

i have restabbed her twice since and still having issues I didnt take pictures of the last two attempts but - the\ rotor was set at 1 and tdc #1 and then i went for the 180 tdc after still sounds cranking but sounding crankier and crankier as i continue the process im going to take another pic give me ten minutes.

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

new pic restabbed any thoughts would really help thanks shes seems to be at TDC #1

 

[lonemust]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

Sorry Silver I just reread the beginning again.


Atomb, do you still have the valve cover off. If so when you bring #1 to tdc you will see that both valves are closed. When you spin the engine "180 degrees" all you are doing is bringing #4 to tdc on comp stroke. This puts #1 at the top of the exhaust stroke so the dist will point at #4 post.

Now, is it still turning over like no compression.(I never have agreed with the 3/4 turn after zero lash thing always acts like no compression for me) The valves might still be to tight.

To check bring #1 cyl up to tdc, loosen the pivot nut on the intake valve SLOWLY and watch the valve spring. If you can see it move up then it is to tight still. Now if that is the case do it to the other valves in the same oder the manual says to adjust. Turn the engine 1 rrevolution and repeat. Only loosen till spring don't move up anymore. then see how the engine turns over. If my thinking is right you will notice a differnce, and valves were to tight.

 

[atomb]

Re: Turns over cant get her to fire up

Lonemust Im going to take a break -I havent been too on top of the valve adjustment and have been focusing on the ditributor for the last hour --you have taught me a bunch Im really thankful.. I have not gotten her started yet -I have me mechanic coming at 6 east time . I feel like i have benn draining the battery - so i put her on charge for abit. So I cant turn the crank for a bit either Ima bit defeated right now but understanding all the info you guys are telling me. I have always wondered about this procedure and it seems pretty 101 but im a newbie. I really dont want to bend or destryoy a valve at this point doing a simple valve setting so im going to let my mech come over and give me a few tips. Ill post back in a few hours ..hopefully will have good results and ill mull over the posts to make sure im crystal clear on your directions. Thanks for everything guys your awesome -ill let you know exactly what i did wrong alittle later today. I will definetly post back.