Two Strokes versus Four strokes

[big_johnst]

I was at the shop picking my boat up. Getting the starter fixed and tuned up. I am planning on buying a new boat in the spring. I had a converation with my mechanic about outboard motors. He has told me some real scary horror stories about four stroke outboard problems. He recommended that I buy a two stroke non injected motor for my new boat. I am looking at a 90 horsepower and seriously considering a Mercury.

 

[JB]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

What sort of scary stories, John?? <br /><br />I can assure you they are garbage designed to sell you a carbed Merc.<br /><br />I advise you to get an EFI 4 stroke, an E-tec or other DFI 2 stroke.<br /><br />It really frusttrates me the way some shadetree wrenches try to sway customers with myth and legend, instead of facts.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

4-stroke outboard problems? Hmmm, let me see....<br /><br />Sometimes turning the key when it's already running, because you can't hear it?<br /><br />All that 2-stroke oil rotting on the shelf in the garage?<br /><br />Having gas money left over for the tow rig?<br /><br />Trolling slower...because you can (without fouling)?<br /><br />No more trips to the store for plugs and decarb?<br /><br />Fuel injection that always works?<br /><br />

 

[jim dozier]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

No doubt he doesn't feel comfortable fixing fuel injection or 4-stroke engines. Buy what you want and find a new mechanic.

 

[manitoba1]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Oak Bayou John:<br /> <br />Had a 2 stroke but now have an EFI four stroke and would never go back. Had over a couple of years use now and love my Suzuki DF70 engine more than ever. At least 2 guys (2 stroke owners) who have driven my boat have said they would buy an EFI Suzuki 4 stroke to power there next boat. I think that pretty much says it all. By the way I don't work for Suzuki. I'm just a owner with an awesome running engine. I run my engine from freezing temperatures to blazing summer heat and my 4 stroke runs and starts the same under all these conditions.<br /><br />If you can take out a rig with an EFI four stroke Suzuki or Johnson (same engine) I know you'll be impressed and you'll be wondering what the heck that mechanic was talking about.<br /><br />Manitoba1

 

[josip_voyager]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Four strokes are long enough on the market (Honda's first four stroke was built 1963), and majority of problems are solved till now. They are robust, clean, comfort (no need to mix fuel with oil), fuel-efficient and have very good performance (especially those 4 strokes with EFI and four valves pro cylinder) and durable. Without any doubt, I can only recommend these engines. 2 strokes are history although they have their advantages too (lower price, simplicity and low maintenance and service costs).

 

[MajBach]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

What color was his neck?<br /><br />I've heard some real scary stories about airplanes myself.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

You could buy that new carbed 2 stroke, and have an outboard that will run good and give you many years of service at a reduced cost. The old-school technology is proven and works, but it is old school. You would not get the benefits that come with the injected 2 strokes and 4 strokes. I have used all sorts of different setups, and while I do like the quiet smoke free running of the 4 stroke, I also do like the nasty howl and excellent performance of my old 69 Merc 1250. Your mechanic may be doing too much engine tuning inside with the doors and windows closed, the new 4 strokes are very reliable and easier to deal with except one factor: Cost. They are hideously expensive and until the price comes down or my income goes up dramatically you probably won't see a 4 stroke on my boat. There is nothing wrong with a new carbed 2 stroke, it just isn't as efficient as the new technology. Buy what works for you and your budget, whats the point of increased fuel effiency when the monthly payment is so high you can't afford the gas?

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Remember, FORCE is no longer a factor, so as JB once said; "Any choice in current manufacture, is not a BAD choice."<br /> Buy what you want, and be happy!

 

[big_johnst]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

I guess I should have been more specific. First off, this is not a dealer that is doing the work but an independent repair only facility. They don't sell motors. These guys have seen every kind of motor problem imaginable and don't have an axe to grind either way. Two problems they pointed out. 1. Eventually you will get water in the fuel, either by your own fault or from a marina. They have already had to replace several heads with valves damaged by a healthy slug of water. 2. In the very sad event you should sink your boat the 4 stroke is toast. With a two stroke, you can get it running again pretty easy. They also thought that 4 stroke motors were way over priced. I do too and am worried about putting a very expensive complex machine in a very abusive environment like the salt water marsh of South Louisiana.<br /><br />I appreciate the useful feedback from most of you. I could live without the "your dude is an idiot" replies.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Oak Bayou John, please keep in mind that if your mechanic is an independant, most likely he has not been to the service schools and updates that a factory trained mechanic has, and although he may work on all makes and models, he has NO training or factory references to go by.<br /> To be honest with you, I would highly recommend you check with several dealers and see what they have to say about the products you may be interested in. <br /> Even the most "seasoned" mechanic may not have the facts to back-up his thoughts without factory support and know-how.........

 

[JB]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Hmmmm.<br /><br />Scary story #1. A water seperating filter should be standard on any 4 stroke installation.<br /><br />Scary story #2. Get a Boston Whaler.<br /><br />Scary story #3. Most 4 strokes are competitively priced with other advanced technology, like DFI 2 strokes. Example: The Suzuki/Johnson DF140 EFI 4 stroke is lighter and less expensive than many competitive DFI 2 strokes. <br /><br />You came to the right place to get correct info instead of myths, John.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

"1. Eventually you will get water in the fuel, either by your own fault or from a marina."<br /><br />I hate to break it to you buddy, but if you're getting water in your fuel, you're going to have problems with any outboard.<br /><br />Hasn't this "independent repair facility" ever heard of fuel/water seperators? All of my outboards have them, whether it's a 2-stroke or 4-stroke.<br /><br />"They have already had to replace several heads with valves damaged by a healthy slug of water."<br /><br />That's odd. Pistons are usually the first things damaged by water ingestion. And 2-strokes have always been more susceptible to engine damage from water ingestion. BTW, water isn't really meant to be burned in any outboard. <br /><br />"2. In the very sad event you should sink your boat the 4 stroke is toast. With a two stroke, you can get it running again pretty easy."<br /><br />Are you serious? You're actually considering what type of outboard to buy based on which one will handle sinking better?<br /><br />I have bigger things to worry about if my boat sinks...like how many prayers I can say in my remaining 15 minutes of life as I tread ice water. BTW, don't you believe in insurance? <br /><br />"They also thought that 4 stroke motors were way over priced."<br /><br />Over-priced? Don't you mean more expensive?<br /><br />I suppose in comparison to a KIA or Daewoo, a Toyota or Ford would be "over-priced" too?<br /><br />You get what you pay for. Usually fuel injection, better warranty, better economy, more pleasure (less smoke and noise), and IMO better overall durability, reliability, life span, maintenance, and performance. Lets not forget resale.<br /><br />"I do too and am worried about putting a very expensive complex machine in a very abusive environment like the salt water marsh of South Louisiana."<br /><br />Salt water shows no mercy...2-stroke or 4-stroke. However, my 4-strokes have no carburetor linkages to corrode, and they come standard with fresh water flushes and anodes on the lower unit, transom bracket, and inside the engine block.<br /><br />IMO, there's only one advantage to 2-strokes, and that's weight on smaller boats.<br /><br />Your shop sounds very incompetent and misinformed to me.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

hello<br /> I like them all cause they break if ya use them or not.I am factory trained for yammaha,merc,mariner,suzuki, force,mercrusier and Volvo-Penta. I apprenticed years ago under mazda porsche and built IHRA drag engines fow a few years. four strokes will break occasionally. when they do stand by. I see things like the filers are just full of water cause no one changed them. I see oil filters that just rust holes through them. I see burned valves stuck valves warped valves and Misshapen valves.most all modern carbed the two stroke failures can be traced to customer neglect. I am rebuilding a 1994 120 looper now. wanna guess why it Blew uP any guesses??<br /> cause the guy did not pull the plug while it was stored on the trailer. it sank on the trailer and when he drained it no one thought to check the oil tank. the VRO pumps water as well as oil just the engine did not like it. were it my money in most spots I would take EFI 4 stroke over 2 stroke simply because with meticulous maintence and competent techs they should go a long long time.. but when it smokes a piston it will be a throw away. good luck and keep posting.

 

[big_johnst]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Thanks for the advice and abuse. It is obvious that you four strokers are passionate about your machines.

 

[josip_voyager]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

To Forktail:<br /><br />IMO, there's only one advantage to 2-strokes, and that's weight on smaller boats.<br /><br />Even that is not an argument any more (see for example tech. specifications for Honda BF20 or BF2.3).

 

[big_johnst]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Oh by the way. Go to the Honda repair board and check out "Help!! Saltwater in my 130s". On a Boston Whaler no less. Total teardown required. My cousin's Suzuki 255 two stroke got sunk by a storm and we had it running the next day.

 

[Hawaiian]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

BYW, the guys fuel tank got salt water in it causing water to be pumped into his Honda 130's. No motors can survive if salt water is left in them. Even Boston Whalers can get water in their tanks. They won't sink like your cousin's boat though.

 

[SeaDawg]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

For anyone that likes 2-strokes, no abuse is intended here, I'm sure. All of us have a choice on the way we want to spend our money, and I'm glad we do.<br /><br />But remember - a 2-stroke engine BY DESIGN has to use oil (even if it is only a little amount). And the ONLY reason the 2-stoke engine manufacturers have not switched to making 4-strokes completely is that they have TONS of money, knowledge and time invested in 2-stroke technology, over the years. It was purely a business decision.<br /><br />Finally, all it takes is one hiccup in a "high tech" 2-stroke, and you have done some engine damage. Period. Who cares if it is covered under warrenty, you can't use it when it is in the shop. And boat engine lemon laws do stink, been there and done that with friends.<br /><br />That's why I buy 4-stroke boat motors, in EVERY case, except where a 2-stroke engines weigh much less than a 4-stroke. And, as mentioned above, that compromise is disappearing fast.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Two Strokes versus Four strokes

Oak Bayou John, was there a point to this thread? It appeared you wanted advice and had some reservations about what your shop said. Now, after reading your post about the Honda's, it appears you want the advice to be one-sided. If you want a 2-stroke, then buy one. I'm sure it will work fine.<br /><br />I own both 2-strokes and 4-strokes....about 20 of them. Most get used commercially in salt. I recommend 4-strokes because my overall experience has shown them to be the best. Take that advice however you want. It's free.