Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

[Gator1996]

I have decided to try and tackle the making of new bow section cushions for the good old stingray. This is the last major project for the boat before I claim that its done. Anyway, I was able to find a sewing machine on CL that is able to handle at least 6 layers of vinyl, (I didn't try any thicker). I decided the next step was to tear the old cushions up to see what they were made of. This was a lot harder than I thought. Funny that the vinyl would tear/break easily but that thread was not going to let loose. Finally was able to get at it with a razor blade and got the panels 99% intact.

I have actually come up with come questions about the construction of the cushions ans was hoping to get some answers or at least thoughts on how I should move forward.

1. In the picture below, this is the top section of one of the seat cushions in the bow, as you can see it is in three sections, sewed together. Does anyone know if there is there a reason that it was done in three panels? Vinyl is wide enough to do this cushion in one piece. Is this just for looks or is there a reason that it should be done this way?

2. The top section of vinyl had what seems to be a foam backing on it. This foam is 1/4 inch thick but it has some kind of weave glued on it almost like cheesecloth. I am not sure what purpose this foam/fabric serves. It is in addition to the 1.5 inch seating foam that is in the cushions also. It can be seen in the next two pictures. I have seen vinyl with foam backing available online so I assume that is what this is. Question is in necessary? I can just get 1.75 inch seat foam and keep the measurements in line. Just not sure if I would be missing something.

3. There is a black plastic type fabric with holes in it on the back of the plywood, it looks like the picture below, what is this called and is it necessary to replace?

4. Is it common practice to try to waterproof the plywood when replacing with epoxy, paint etc. I wonder if it is worth the added expense.

I appreciate all thoughts on this as I want to make sure I get this right the first time, which would be the first time.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

All Good Questions!!! the 1/4" foam is called "Sew Foam". It's used to define "Pleats" and seams in your upholstery. Gives a bit of definition to it. You don't HAVE to use it The "Weave" backing on it is so the thread won't pull through the foam and will "Pucker" it when the tension is applied to the thread and thus forms the "Pleat" or indented seam. The seat is done in sections to give it this sectioned "Defined" look. Again NOT necessary it's just for LOOKS! The Black "Holy" vinyl is to alow the foam seat to breathe. You can use grommets instead. Or drill holes in the plywood. I covered my foam with Walmart Plastic Bags to waterproof em but mostly to aid in keeping the vinyl from abrading the foam. This link has some helpful info.

"Building and Upholstering a Bench Seat"

This one too, starting on page 4

"My Flamingo" - 1961 Lonestar 1962 Evinrude Lark 40HP Gator Tilt Trailer

 

[britisher]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I suspect the vinyl being 3 sewn sections is from an appearance point of view. Bit like the seats in your car/truck, the seams make the shape of the seat.
When I was doing the reurb on my SR180 BR last year, I had to replace the 2 main seats, and put new vinyl on the bow side panels, dashboard and main side panels. The passenger seat cushions (they are biggest) in the bow and the back bench have still to be started on. That said, the new helm/passenger seats I bought from Veada. They let you choose up to 3 color combinations in the price. I admit to being boring on this, but chose to stay close to the original color scheme of White and 2 shades of Blue. With Veada, they also supply vinyl by length, so I was able to purchase vinyl for the panels I did in the same color combination of the new seats, so everything matches. The bulk of that vinyl I bought is regular marine vinyl with a fabric backing, BUT for the dash panels, they needed a little padding and Veada supply all their vinyls in both regular and with a 1/4" foam backing.You could decide to use regualr vinyl for your re-upholstery OR you could use the vinyl with the foam padding. All it will do is give it that extra little padding. As for the black stuff on the reverse of the panel, it is called Scrim and is more decorative. I have a full width sunpad/engine cover and my upholstery guy did that for me as it was a huge piece of vinyl with sewn side panels with piping. I That was beyond me. After putting the vinyl over the foam panel and stapling it to the plywood base, he put on the scrim, then finished the whole lot off with Hidem Welt trim, which hides all the stapling and makes the job look professional & complete. Check out the Veada site for materials and ideas.
On the plywood panels, as stated earlier, i have yet to re-do the cushions that you are now doing, but with the sunpad/engine cover, I gave it several coats of poly resin to seal it. However, what I learned at the upholstering stage is that too thicker coats and the staples will not go in the wood. Bear that in mind. I ended up having to grind mine back a chunk to allow the staples to penetrate the plywood.
Good luck

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Thanks for the quick and thorough reply WOG. I am pretty sure that the time I would add in sewing the three panels together is minimal so I may still do so but it is good to know that I can skip that step if I choose. Gonna give this thing a roll and see what happens. I imagine you'll be hearing from me again sooner than later.

Thanks again, Gator

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I don't think it's three panels. I just think it's sew foam glued to a single panel and then 2 decorative seams run down to simulate 3 panels. I might be wrong, but you could do that and get the same look. What Machine did you get?

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Thanks for looking in on me Britisher. I bought seats also. They seemed like way too much for me to handle. I did the side panels of the boat myself and they turned out OK I guess. Kind of homemade looking to me but everyone that has seen them say they look good for the vintage of the boat. Probably just saying that but hey they are working.

It has been tough for me to take a swing at the cushions but I realized that the upholstery fairy ain't gonna show up anytime soon. So off I go. So far the job hasn't been hard just nasty. The plywood was basically dirt and there were plenty of bugs making a home in the foam. I think that my main advantage is that all I have to do is repeat what is in front of me so it can't be but so hard...right?

Thanks again for your input, it is appreciated. Good luck to you also.

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

On man Wood, you are right they are just pleats, the fabric is essentially just folded over it self. I see that you said that already but I missed the point until now. So if I did try to recreate that it is gonna take longer than I thought.

The machine is a White model #263. I looked on CL and searched to try to find info on all the machines that were for sale. I have not found a ton of info in this model but I was able to find the owners manual. When I saw that it was able to do upholstery and denim, I gave it a shot. Got the machine for $40 so I was willing to risk. I have never sewn before but I tried six layers of vinyl and in went through without a hitch. I think that it is not as old as I originally thought but not totally sure. It has a 1.5 amp motor if that says anything.

Here she is in all her glory.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Gator, Trust me on this one. You MUST buy an AIR stapler. NOT a 1/4" one but a 7/16" Wide Crown Upholstery stapler. Harbor Freight sells em.

20 Gauge Wide Crown Stapler

They'll run fine off a Pancake compressor and shoot 1/2" long stainless steel staples all day long. This is an absolute "Must Have" if you're gunna do your own upholstery. Are you going to do "Piping" on your seats? I have a video on my links that show you how to make it if you want to try.

EDIT: Yup, that old Girl is similar to the machine I used and it will get the job done. Those old ALL metal machines for the 60's are Heavy Duty. Once you get used to setting the tension properly and adjusting the presser foot correctly she'll feed and sew great. TIP: Use some teflon spray on the vinyl to make it slide on the metal plate on the machine easier. Let me know if I can assist with settings etc. I learned a LOT believe me. I couldn't even SPELL Sewing Machine when I started. :laugh:

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I actually looked at that stapler this morning. I used a regular staple gun when I did the trim panels on the boat. I had coated them with epoxy and just like Britisher said above, I had to tap 75% of the staples into the wood with a hammer. I went through over 1000 staples like that, a real PITA so yeah, I agree that I will need the stapler. I am planning on doing the piping and I have watched your video a couple of times. I had considered just buying it already made from the same guy I get the vinyl form though. Kind of lazy I guess.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Gator, Trust me on this one. You MUST buy an AIR stapler. NOT a 1/4" one but a 7/16" Wide Crown Upholstery stapler. Harbor Freight sells em....

+1 on that, i started on my old formula seats using a cheepo electric one.. :mad-new: very frustrating. A good air stapler is a night and day difference, makes the job so much less aggravating.

 

[britisher]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Before you rush out buying air staplers, compressors, etc, you might want to seek out a local upholsterer and get a price quote for them doing the job, with or without you supplying materials. We all like to DIY and we are conscious of the dollar spend, but sometimes doing it yourself doesn't make sense to contracting a particular job out. For example, my sunpad/engine cover is over 6' wide and about 3' deep. My upholstery guy charged me $139.00 for re-upholstering the sunpad, including him supplying the vinyl, scrim, etc as well sewing up and creating seams for the bow seat side panels which curve round the boat under the dash. There were stitched vertical seams in those with piping and side seams and piping on the sunpad. I know how long it took him to do the jobs and know that $139.00 was a good deal. The vinyl for the sunpad would have likely set me back $40.00. Depends on the value you put on your own time.
I used a hand stapler that I picked up from Lowe's. I did have to remove a good number of staples that bent before going in and sometimes that was just how I was positioning the stapler. But for me, it did not make economic sense to go out and buy an air stapler, compressor, etc.

 

[bajaunderground]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Before you rush out buying air staplers, compressors, etc, you might want to seek out a local upholsterer and get a price quote for them doing the job, with or without you supplying materials. We all like to DIY and we are conscious of the dollar spend, but sometimes doing it yourself doesn't make sense to contracting a particular job out. For example, my sunpad/engine cover is over 6' wide and about 3' deep. My upholstery guy charged me $139.00 for re-upholstering the sunpad, including him supplying the vinyl, scrim, etc as well sewing up and creating seams for the bow seat side panels which curve round the boat under the dash. There were stitched vertical seams in those with piping and side seams and piping on the sunpad. I know how long it took him to do the jobs and know that $139.00 was a good deal. The vinyl for the sunpad would have likely set me back $40.00. Depends on the value you put on your own time.
I used a hand stapler that I picked up from Lowe's. I did have to remove a good number of staples that bent before going in and sometimes that was just how I was positioning the stapler. But for me, it did not make economic sense to go out and buy an air stapler, compressor, etc.

When I did my Baja, I went through all the same processes. I ended up buying new helm seats and new vinyl and tackled the job my self. It turned out okay, but not perfect. I didn't use the piping (I should have, just for the "completed" look!). I did use the welting to hide the staples and use the old skewl Swingline T stapler with SS...actually worked very well, but my hand would start cramping on larger pieces.

On the CC, I plan on tasking the job out as I plan on using this boat for few years and just want the piece of mind of it done better and my machine is not sewing as well as it used too. I used batting in lieu of the 1/4" foam...in retrospect, the foam might have been easier?

Here's my thread on the BAJA...I'll can answer any questions as well, although with WOG, you're pretty much covered! I picked up a lot of info from him while hiding in the shadows of iboats...

~Brett

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

IF, BIIIIG IF, you can find an Upholsterer the will do your pad for $50 including the cost of the vinyl, that might be worth it. A Yard of Vinyl is $7.00 bucks Your time is your time. I personally found Sewing to be a lot of Fun and rewarding. AND you already have the machine. It's up to you, but I'd go for it especially since it's coming on winter and you need some "Inside" work anyhow!!!

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I'm thinking 10 yds of vinyl. I will use the the same guy I got it from for the panels. $55 for 10 yards same color.

The piping goes about $2.00/yd so I might try to make my own worse case- 30 yds? $60

I had hoped to reuse the foam but it is shot so I will need that also-so 2 sheets of 2" @$35.00- $70.00

1,100 yards of thread $13

Hydem trim welting-$2.29/yard and optional could make my own on this too worse case- 30 yards $70.00

I have the plywood on hand. May buy some epoxy to waterproof not sure.

Staples-2 boxes @ $12/box-$24

Stapler-$25 @ HF-compressor is on site no additional cost

Sewing Machine is on site @$40

So all in for 8 cushions is roughly $400 dollars. That is with about $50 left for cushion. I will say that is more than I thought it would be and I think that I may have a look around and see if a pro might get me close. There will be a considerable learning curve for me and I may blow some supplies giving it the old college try. I do have the old material laid out so there would be a good starting point for someone who knew what they were doing. Anyone think that I will get anywhere close to $400 for 8 cushions?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I don't think a Pro would touch it for that price. I got my foam FREE Off Craigslist from a Donor Couch!!! Worked GREAT!!!! Used an Electric Carving Knife and a Band Saw to cut to shape. Worked like a Charm. I did Two Captains Seats and the bench Seat for About $250 in supplies including the $75 for the Sewing Machine. Upholsterer wanted $100 bucks to do 1 Seat.$650 for all 3

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

Not all upholstery shops will, but you might ask if you bring old vinyl for a pattern, what they would charge for the sewing ONLY. then you do the plywood, sealing, foam, plastic cover for foam, stretch the vinyl & staple it on.

At least 1 fiberglass & 1 tin boat rebuild here did get someone to sew the vinyl professionally and did everything else themselves.

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I'm thinking that I would get laughed at now that I've taken a look around online. I actually thought about supplying the materials and giving the sewing machine in trade to someone. Those machines can be pretty pricey. I know a few people that sew a lot and when I asked if they were interested, they all said "I don't have a machine that would handle it" maybe I can see if they'll put their money where their mouth is. I think that is the standard thanks but no thanks response.

Yeah that's right I remember the sacrificial couch now. I might look around and see what I can find.
Thanks again Wood.

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

That's along the lines of what I was thinking JB, I can see their face now when I roll in with that skanky, rotten smelling vinyl. Probably not going to be a good first impression.

 

[zool]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

I thought about jobbing out the upholstery and canvans work, but then i figured, with all the learning curves to best in a rebuild, whats one more on the pile....

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Upholstery Questions-All opinions welcome

That's along the lines of what I was thinking JB, I can see their face now when I roll in with that skanky, rotten smelling vinyl. Probably not going to be a good first impression.

Yep, not every shop will work w/ you. BUT just wanted you to know it HAS been done, recently.