Using poly and epoxy resin together?

jljohnson85

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Aug 19, 2005
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Is it possible to use both polyester resin and epoxy resin together on the same project? For example, let's say I want to seal all my boards with poly, then glue them to the hull with epoxy, then laminate the glass with poly? If this is not doable, is there a way I can thin the epoxy for sealing the boards? Reason why I ask is because I picked up a super cheap bayliner project and this is just a learning experience and I would like to keep costs down as much as possible while still doing a good job.
 

lingcod

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Jul 27, 2004
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181
Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

from what I have read here, epoxy sticks to poly but poly wont stick to epoxy. kind of like nothing sticks to teflon but teflon sticks to the pan. the only way I would mix poly and epoxy is to do the stringers and transom with poly and the floor with poly. if you are looking for a cheap way of doing this then go all poly.
 

Bondo

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Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

Reason why I ask is because I picked up a super cheap bayliner project and this is just a learning experience and I would like to keep costs down as much as possible while still doing a good job.
Just use Polyester.........
 

jljohnson85

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Aug 19, 2005
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Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

Originally posted by Bondo:<br /> Just use Polyester.........
So I will be fine with just polyester? I heard that it doesnt bond well to the original polyester in the boat. Whats the best way to prep the surface when laying down the new resin?
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
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Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

If polyesters didn't bond well to polyesters then all boats would fall apart. In production all boats have poly to poly bonds, the longer it sits and cures the better surface prep is needed, in the first 24 to 48 hours little or no prep is needed, after that then sanding is advised, after many years, as in this case, you need to grind it well with 36 grit or so. <br />You need to look at what failed in the boat, was it the polyester resin, or was it the wood. If it was just the wood that failed, then whatever they did in the begining worked until the wood got wet and rotted.<br />Now for the epoxy crowd, epoxy is much stronger, bonds better to most things, is a much better glue and is more water resistant, but it's not a miracle cure. It won't stop the wood from rotting if it gets wet, it won't make the repair last longer, and in the small amounts used it won't make your boat faster by being lighter. To take advantage of what epoxy can do, the part needs to be well engineered and fibers other than glass need to be used.<br /><br />I'm not saying epoxy is bad, if you like it and want to use it, it's fine, but don't think you if you don't use it the repairs will fail. <br /><br />Another thing, most of the polyester resin you buy at any store is better than what the main resin base used in production boats is. The main base resin (DCPD, most are blends of it) used to make boats has a very short shelf life, if it's not used right away it will get hard. They need to use a better grade of resin to get the shelf life needed for over the counter products.<br /><br />With epoxies it can be the opposite, to keep the cost down and because of health concerns, some over the counter products are not as good as what might be used in a production application.
 

surlyjoe

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Nov 21, 2005
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486
Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

Originally posted by ondarvr:<br /> If polyesters didn't bond well to polyesters then all boats would fall apart. <br /><br />
this is not true. when laying up the hull the resin changes state as a single unit and does not cure fully on teh surface before the stringers are laid in, once the initial layup has fully cured, eopxy will bond to it much better than poly or vinyl.<br /><br /><br />I would say coat all your stuff and make any parts with the poly, and then attatch that to the old part with epoxy
 

Chief101

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Sep 29, 2005
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Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

Good call ondarvr. ;)
 

ondarvr

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Re: Using poly and epoxy resin together?

theScrumbler<br /><br />You are correct, and like I said, epoxy will bond better than a polyester, but polyester to polyester bonds don't typically fail, so what do you gain. The boats I repaired in the 60s are still holding together, even though all I used was polyester. <br /><br />In production some parts of boats are laminated and put together immediately and other parts may be laminated weeks or months later, the bigger the boat the longer it takes to make, and the longer the surface sits before it's laminated on. With DCPD resins it's very important to sand any surface that has been sitting for more than a day or so.<br /><br />DCPD resins cure very well on the surface rapidly, so the window for secondary bonding is much shorter than for other types of resin. Most boats are made with DCPD blends and this rapid surface cure issue is handled by sanding the area where the bond needs to be made. <br /><br />I believe the main reason people think polyesters don't bond well, is that most of the time they see repairs made with poor surface prep and cloth. You can easily pull off any laminate that uses cloth as the first or only layer. Epoxy will bond much better when used this way and may (will) hold up much longer.
 
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