Using spar varnish

Rsb1970

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I'm going to seal some plywood for my boat floor. Can I use spar varnish? Will that be enough to seal it? Then I'm going to put Capet down.
 

Woodonglass

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What kind of plywood? If it's only ext.grade then I'd say it might be IF you applied 4-5 coats and paid extremely close attention to the edges. The best coating would be 2 coats of Epoxy or Polyester Resin and CSM.
 

Watermann

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If your replacing the deck in an aluminum Crestliner then the spar varnish would work fine, lot's of us use it.
 

jbcurt00

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If your replacing the deck in an aluminum Crestliner then the spar varnish would work fine, lot's of us use it.

Yep ^^^ but under carpet, there are other, more expensive, but better sealers, that will last longer.

Under vinyl, spar is a good choice. Under carpet, its an ok choice, IMO.
 

Ned L

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I would be interested in hearing how "spar varnish" became so popular here as a 'wood sealent'. When I want to apply a protective 'sealent' to wood in a non-visual area my choice would pretty much always be paint. The higher solids content will build faster and provide more abrasion resistance. As for which one 'soaks in more', try stripping both paint and varnish off a surface and find out which one sticks in the grain more.
Just because it is clear, like epoxy, doesn't mean it is more like epoxy than paint.

(I definately agree epoxy is #1, but comes with a price tag.)

I have never understood the recommendation. .. Just wondering.
 

Watermann

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Ned you could always google the spar we're using. Here is what I use http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...-spar-urethane

Hope that helps you 'understand' why spar is a 'sealant'. I agree paint is a great choice for sealing just about any material and I usually do both spar and paint on things like transom wood.

Spar can even be exposed to the light of day and not fail like epoxy resin which has to be covered with something so UV doesn't ruin it.

Forgot to add Wood's OTF.

fetch
 
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ondarvr

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Epoxy is by far the best, the other products used aren't even close. Paints, spar varnish and other blends are short term at best, they don't start out that water resistant and get worse quickly, so they need to be reapplied frequently to be of much value.
 

Ned L

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Ned you could always google the spar we're using. Here is what I use http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...-spar-urethane

Hope that helps you 'understand' why spar is a 'sealant'. I agree paint is a great choice for sealing just about any material and I usually do both spar and paint on things like transom wood.

Spar can even be exposed to the light of day and not fail like epoxy resin which has to be covered with something so UV doesn't ruin

Oh,.. I understand this. I am fairly familiar with varnish and brightwork. When boats were wood I can't say that I could think of a single situation where someone would choose varnish over paint for sheer protective qualities. Varnish is chosen for its aesthetic visual qualities (pretty brightwork), or because you want to see early signs of any structural issues (as on sailboat masts).

If people want to use varnish that's fine.

Oops,.... That Minwax is a straight urathane,.... not really varnish.
 
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Watermann

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Epoxy is by far the best, the other products used aren't even close. Paints, spar varnish and other blends are short term at best, they don't start out that water resistant and get worse quickly, so they need to be reapplied frequently to be of much value.

The OP wanted some advice on using Spar from members that have used it before, everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it should be weighed against those who haven't any experience or any builds in their sig line.

As far as penetration into the plywood goes, nothing gets past the first layer of glue. I've cut holes in ply treated with spar and it's penetrated down to the first glue layer.
 

ondarvr

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The OP wanted some advice on using Spar from members that have used it before, everyone is entitled to their own opinions but it should be weighed against those who haven't any experience or any builds in their sig line.

As far as penetration into the plywood goes, nothing gets past the first layer of glue. I've cut holes in ply treated with spar and it's penetrated down to the first glue layer.

​My comments were in part a reply to another post in this thread, but also for the OP's benefit. Somehow people seem to think that some of these other "sealants" will work well for waterproofing wood either under carpet or used in very wet environments, they don't do it well, if at all.

​If the wood needs to be protected from water and is in a location where you can't easily get to it, then epoxy is about the only thing that is going lengthen the useful life of the wood. Some sealants will work OK if you can easily apply more as needed, or the water contact is intermittent, but if it gets wet, and stays wet, epoxy is the product to use.
 

Rsb1970

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I would be interested in hearing how "spar varnish" became so popular here as a 'wood sealent'. When I want to apply a protective 'sealent' to wood in a non-visual area my choice would pretty much always be paint. The higher solids content will build faster and provide more abrasion resistance. As for which one 'soaks in more', try stripping both paint and varnish off a surface and find out which one sticks in the grain more.
Just because it is clear, like epoxy, doesn't mean it is more like epoxy than paint.

(I definately agree epoxy is #1, but comes with a price tag.)

I have never understood the recommendation. .. Just wondering.

So you're saying to just use paint? What kind?
 

Rsb1970

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If I just use the minwax helmsman spar urethane how long would it last? A couple months, a couple years?
 

Tnstratofam

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I used the helmsman spar urethane varnish on the transom of our SS160 when we replaced it 3 years ago. The boat stays covered in our driveway or parked in the dry in our garage when we aren't using it. I coated both sides with 3 coates and saturated the edges with 6 coats. It looks as good now as it did the day It was finished. I also used the spar varnish on the casting deck I built for the bow. I covered it with carpet and it too has held up well. I agree that epoxy is the best protectant but spar varnish has worked well for me. Mind you our SS is an alluminium bow rider and I can inspect the transom easily.
 

ondarvr

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If I just use the minwax helmsman spar urethane how long would it last? A couple months, a couple years?

​Are you going to put something like carpet over it, and will it be stored indoors or out?
 

Ned L

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So you're saying to just use paint? What kind?

I myself use a good quality oil based enamel. Something like Rustoleum is a good value (about $10 a qt.) and is available everywhere. You can go up from there to $30+ a quart.
 

Watermann

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If I just use the minwax helmsman spar urethane how long would it last? A couple months, a couple years?

I knew this would happen, confusing comments from people who have never used either product.

How old is your boat? I'm assuming it's an aluminum Crestliner made in 1987. So the untreated factory deck is needing replaced after 30 years of use and I'm sure some abuse.

Just to add perspective there was no magical epoxy resin or worthless spar on the decking to seal it from the factory in 1987 and it lasted for decades. So anything you do to seal the wood will be better than it was new and last a very long time if you cover it up and not allow the elements to ravage the interior.

On a side note have you checked the transom wood for any signs of decay?
 

Ned L

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I knew this would happen, confusing comments from people who have never used either product.

How old is your boat? I'm assuming it's an aluminum Crestliner made in 1987. So the untreated factory deck is needing replaced after 30 years of use and I'm sure some abuse.

Just to add perspective there was no magical epoxy resin or worthless spar on the decking to seal it from the factory in 1987 and it lasted for decades. So anything you do to seal the wood will be better than it was new and last a very long time if you cover it up and not allow the elements to ravage the interior.

On a side note have you checked the transom wood for any signs of decay?

+1.
 

ondarvr

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I have a couple of Starcrafts from the 60's, they have the original transom wood, one had a plywood floor placed in it at some time in the late 60's, because the wood was of a decent grade and left open, it lasted for 3 -4 decades with zero attention. Now if you cover it with carpet, vinyl, or something else like a mound of wet leaves while sitting in the side yard, the lifespan is shortened dramatically. Products like spar varnish, paint, Thompson's Water Seal, etc, are not going to extend the lifespan much once carpet is laid over it, epoxy is the only product that will extend the life of the wood, and only if you don't drill holes in it and leave them unsealed.

​My boats were stored outside on the beach, but upside down most of the time, so the plywood was dry except when it was being used. Plywood is cheap and easy to replace, so I don't do much of anything to protect it on an aluminum boat, at most I'll use some porch paint and grit to make a non skid surface if needed.

​These boats were used like tools, checking crab pots, fishing, shrimping, shuttling to larger boats that were kept tied to buoys all summer, etc, we did nothing to make them look better, this allowed the wood to survive longer.
 

ondarvr

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To add, yes I've used spar varnish, the results vary greatly on the type of ply you're coating and where it will live. Fir plywood is desired for it's rot resistance, but the surface checks badly after a year or so if it's exposed to the elements, spar varnish isn't strong enough to stop the checking (cracking and widening of natural gaps in the plywood surface), frequently the checking starts in a year or so and defeats the purpose of using any type of coating to protect the wood at all. Epoxy is strong enough to resist the checking, so it survives much longer as a protective coating.
 
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