Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

[natemoore]

I'm taking my 470 engine to the machine shop tomorrow. He ball parked a figure over the phone for him to take my junk and return it as a rebuilt long block: $1800.

I can't spend that kind of money right now. He quoted individual operations like boring ($60), turning the crankshaft ($90). I can handle those numbers. I've got more time than money these days.

I'm not really sure what questions to ask him and what to look for in a machine shop. I'm assuming he'll mic everything and tell me what size pistons and bearings I'll need, next I'll get the necessary parts, then he'll do his work.

Will he bore the cylinder based on the diameter of the individual piston? Ditto for the bearings? Will there be any finessing required after he bores the cylinders and turns the crank? Is this what is called "fitting"?

I intend to do all the reassembly and assume the Mercruiser manual gives all the necessary information. But invoking Donald Rumsfeld, I don't know what I don't know.

I appreciate your advice.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

I'm taking my 470 engine to the machine shop tomorrow. He ball parked a figure over the phone for him to take my junk and return it as a rebuilt long block: $1800.

Seems kinda high... for example, I bought a reman long block, no core, for about $1750, and that was a chevy 350.

I can't spend that kind of money right now. He quoted individual operations like boring ($60), turning the crankshaft ($90). I can handle those numbers. I've got more time than money these days.

If he does them by hand, sure. Does he rebuild engines for a living, or is he a general machinist? If he's not strictly an engine rebuilder, look for one. They'll be cheaper for a number of reasons.

I'm not really sure what questions to ask him and what to look for in a machine shop. I'm assuming he'll mic everything and tell me what size pistons and bearings I'll need, next I'll get the necessary parts, then he'll do his work.

If he's doing a standard rebuild, then he'll be getting a parts kit from somewhere than includes new slightly oversize pistons, seals, rings, and a whole bunch of other items. He'll clean the block in a chemical tank, make sure the surfaces are true and useable, check all parts like the crank for size and true (assuming he doesn't just replace it). Then he'll assemble the cleaned parts plus the kit parts to get a long block.

If the engine's in good shape he won't need to turn and true many parts, and in fact he probably won't have to.

FYI, a 470 is a bastard child... pretty sure it's cheaper and easier to replace it with an inline 4 or 6 used engine than a reman, and easier in the long run anyway.

What you describe is the sort of process I'd use to fix an engine that can't be remann'ed, like something you can't get parts for. Too expensive for anything but a museum piece or well loved heirloom, and I wouldn't do that for a 470 in any case.

Will he bore the cylinder based on the diameter of the individual piston? Ditto for the bearings? Will there be any finessing required after he bores the cylinders and turns the crank? Is this what is called "fitting"?

He'll bore the cylinders to a standard size, whatever size he gets the new pistons for. Same with the bearings, they are a standard size.

If the pistons aren't scored and don't need boring, just honing, then he won't even need new pistons, just some rings and a polish job. He may use new pistons anyway.

Erik

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

I intend to do all the reassembly and assume the Mercruiser manual gives all the necessary information. But invoking Donald Rumsfeld, I don't know what I don't know.

I've rebuilt several engines, but never a 470. If you've never rebuilt one (and from the sound of it, you haven't) from what I've read you are thinking of tackling a difficult one for your first.

There are some very unique features of this particular engine that apparently make it a challenge even for someone with experience.

My suggestion would be similar to Erik and find a suitable replacement engine and / or boat.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

My suggestion would be similar to Erik and find a suitable replacement engine and / or boat.

Ayuh,... Throw your money Away on a more worthy project....
Part out what you've got, as far as Driveline....

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

I agreew with the others, don't dump that kind of money in to a 470, not worth it.

FYI, when I rebuilt my 140HP 3.0 it was around $900, $450 for parts and $450 for the machine work. A new crate 3.0 can be had for around $2000. This is just an example as you probably wouldn't be happy with a 3.0, less power than a 470...

 

[natemoore]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Ayuh,... Throw your money Away on a more worthy project....
Part out what you've got, as far as Driveline....

I have been beseeching the Great Celestial Dictator for another Hurricane Ivan. If that happens, I'll be rolling in dough and will dump this boat on the side of the road and pay cash for a brand new boat. However, kitchen remodeling isn't high on people's list these days, so in reality I'm forced to salvage what I've got, and I'm forced to do everything but the machine shop work.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Ayuh,.... For the Two Grand,... Plus,... That you're going to end up dumping into this thing,....
You'll have a 470....That probably won't run,+ if it does, probably not for long...
It's a Finicky motor, Not a Beginer's Choice...

For the Same money you can buy Another boat...

There's Nothin' wrong with chasin' a Dream,....
Unless you're headed in the Wrong Direction... 'n You Are....

 

[natemoore]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

I've rebuilt several engines, but never a 470. If you've never rebuilt one (and from the sound of it, you haven't) from what I've read you are thinking of tackling a difficult one for your first.

I've been a gearhead since about 13 years old. I know enough to know when to get help. I've rebuilt one engine and one manual transmission. I've restored several vehicles, couple of short block swaps. Did a manual to automatic transmission conversion on a Ford F-100. Haven't paid a mechanic a penny in my adult life despite the fact that our current vehicles have 150K and 125K, and I upgraded from a truck that had 180,000.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Sorry - didn't mean to question your abilities. From the questions it sounded like this would be your first project. Well, you now have the information - the choice is yours. Good luck!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Well,... You have the Abilities,....

It's Still a 470,+ that's What's gotta Change, or you'll just have another Money Pit.....

I ain't trying to come down on you or nothing,... Just trying to Save Your boating Future.....

 

[natemoore]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Ayuh,.... For the Two Grand,...
For the Same money you can buy Another boat....

I looked at $2000 boats. At least mine has a good hull that isn't rotten.

There's Nothin' wrong with chasin' a Dream,....
Unless you're headed in the Wrong Direction... 'n You Are....

I'll go torch the boat. Thanks.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Well, you now have the information - the choice is yours. Good luck!

Ayuh,... I guess Mark summed it up much Better than me....

 

[natemoore]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Well,... You have the Abilities,....

It's Still a 470,+ that's What's gotta Change, or you'll just have another Money Pit.....

I ain't trying to come down on you or nothing,... Just trying to Save Your boating Future.....

Sorry if I'm getting snippy, but I'm drinking bourbon and you guys are getting me down.

I don't know what other options I have, besides putting it back together with new gaskets, playing dumb, and selling it to some other shmuck.

I know it's not the best engine, but I've also read on this forum that it is a good engine as long as you know its weaknesses.

A complete changeover to a different engine would cost thousands more than a 470 rebuild, and I could be rebuilding that engine as well.

I should have bought the furniture.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

A complete changeover to a different engine would cost thousands more than a 470 rebuild, and I could be rebuilding that engine as well.

Naw,... No where Near...

Go buy 1 of those $1500. rotten hulls with a Running 4.3l/ Alpha 1.....

Only the Outdrive you have now is much Good,...
Sell the motor,+ transom assembley to 1 of the "some other shmucks" who's still in Denial about the virtues of the lovely 470....

 

[dr_bowtie]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

If you like a challenge I say do it...

I mean what would be the cheaper way out..? rebuilding what you have or converting everything to something more common..?

 

[natemoore]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

Sorry - didn't mean to question your abilities. From the questions it sounded like this would be your first project. Well, you now have the information - the choice is yours. Good luck!

No sweat.

 

[Alumarine]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

There's some good info at http://www.breezeworks.net/ on the 470.

Good luck.

 

[gettin'even]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

If the grooving of the cam seal issue is fixed, and the owner is smart enough to watch the temp gauge, and not overheat the engine, what is left for a 470 to be an undesireable engine? (I am being serious here)

 

[Bondo]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

what is left for a 470 to be an undesireable engine?

Ayuh,....
Other than the lengthly list of NLA parts,...

 

[jtybt]

Re: Visiting the machine shop tomorrow

I'll play a little devil advocate, too. The 470 is the highest power to weight marine engine built. I'd say get it done. heck, you only have 4 cylinders to fool with. I think there have been some alt conversions done. You should be able to figure it out.

I've been doing my own work since the same age and never been to a repair shop...for 50 years.