VRO Float

[bradheil]

Hello,<br />I would just like to let everyone know, the buzzer was the float switch inside the VRO tank. For some reason it was stuck in the closed position. This could be because of the way I have to fill it. I am not sure if the funnel I used hit the float and pushed it past it's intended closed position or not but, I was able to correct the float and now it is working properly again. I really appreciate everyone's patients with me. I sincerely thank Almost Retired, Clanton, Dhadley, OB, and everyone else who put up with my redundant questions. If I could ask one more question on this, is the general consensus, Get rid of the VRO and mix the oil in the fuel as in the old days?<br />Brad

 

[ob]

Re: VRO Float

Brad that opens up a new can of worms.Ipersonally don't trust the omc vro set-up because it has no failsafe feature.the no oil alarm is little more than a play toy.At 6000 rpm pistons are stroking 600 per second.You'd have to be a lot Quicker than Bruce Lee getting to the ignition switch in the advent of oil flow failure when no oil alarm sounds.

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

OB, <br />I like that! Being disabled now (even before I became disabled) I will/was never be a Bruce Lee!!! My thoughts have always been the same as yours on this subject however, time and technology do change things. I was not sure if that was so in this case but I guess nothing has changed in this area. Thanks again.<br />Brad

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: VRO Float

Its rare to have a VRO failure where the engine is damaged by no oiling. Usually other factors enter into the equation for the powerhead to fail, but the easy way out is for the mechanic to blame the VRO. This thinking should be filed along with those mechanics years ago when electronic ignition first came out in cars as standard equipment. They would change the system back to points and condenser because they were afraid of the electronics failing and leaving them stranded. As we all know now, electonic ignition is the best thing since sliced bread and automatic oiling will be the same way when more mechanics get educated on the systems.

 

[ob]

Re: VRO Float

can we have some examples of when the engine fails from no oiling. I didn't remove mine because I'm afraid of new and better technology , it's just that it's technology is not new and better.Mine internally failed between oil and fuel half causing extreme oil rich mix on start-up.I just don't like babysitting a unit whose reliability can leave me stranded at sea.so, I thought it best to take that possibility out of the equation.Coast guard rescue boats out of port aransas on the gulf coast don't use them either.I wonder why.especially since they are a goverment entity who should be concerned with reliable outboards.the concept of vro is great,it's just one human beings design used by omc that I don't trust. I would suspect the other oil related failures you speak of are the resrvoirs and related hoses leading to and from vro pump . that's the point.to remove these from the operational equation until a more failsafe design can be developed.Actually I think it has .It's called a four stroke.

 

[ehaskins]

Re: VRO Float

OMC is one of the better designs than most. Carbon would work its way down around piston crown causing the cylinder to score back before TCW-3. You always heard then VRO failed I just think that train of thought stuck after ashless oil. Most other oilers were metal pumps nothing worse than metal on metal. As for warnings I think if an oiler quits on any motor by the time motor finally shuts down some damage is done no matter who makes it<br /><br />Eric

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

Hello,<br />There is clearly an arguement here! Not discounting anything anyone has said, I believe I would have to agree with OB. I too remember the days of electronic ignition. I was working retail in an auto parts store. I was one who was on the side of technology then and I am now. However as OB says until this system has a more reliable credit behind it I believe that being safe is better than being sorry. I too know of many people who have had good luck with VRO and of those who have had to have power head replacements for the same reason. My first VRO was very successful. I do not believe that is the same in this case. Thank you for your replies, I do appreciate all of your input.<br />Brad

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: VRO Float

The VRO is a very simple design. I keep all the old pumps that I remove from customer's boats so that I may have parts to rebuilt those that are fixable. There is only one pump shaft that pumps both oil and fuel. For the pump to over oil, means the pump can't get enough fuel and is working overtime and will pump excessive oil. The newer VRO's and the replacement pumps have a low oil pressure switch built into the rear. If the oil pressure coming from the pump drops, the little pin lever sounds the alarm. At the time the alarm sounds, the carbs and fuel lines are still full of oil/fuel mix and no harm is done if the engine is stopped. I have a worse problem with the Mecury oil systems that are driven by a plastic gear on the crank. Those are always failing and to repair them takes breaking the engine down to replace the gear.

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

CaptKen,<br />Here is where I may need some clarification. If Low Oil sounds, you say there is still plenty of fuel/oil in the carbs and lines. If so, then what causes the Low Oil sensor to activate the alarm or to word it another way why would you have low oil pressure, which causes the alarm to sound? I guess my confusion is why you would have low oil. I would suppose that if you had a cracked line or some other sort of malfunction, between the tank and the pump, you would still have some oil but not enough? Is this what you are saying?<br />Brad

 

[seahorse5]

Re: VRO Float

Brad,<br /><br />Low oil alarm means there is about 1/4 volume of oil remaining in the remote tank. The NO OIL alarm (on-off beeps) means there is no oil pressure inside the oil pump.<br /><br />The previous posts are pretty correct. Most of the time the VRO is not the reason for an engine failure. It is blamed by the uninformed "mechanics" who do not know how it works, or need an excuse for a problem.<br /><br />Find a January 2000 copy of Bass and Walleye Boats or a Feb issue of Trailer Boats for an indepth article on the VRO.

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

Seahorse,<br />I don't want to play stupid (or maybe I do but I am trying to understand how this would happen. The fuel/oil pump are one in the same, as I know it. Knowing this, I guess my confusion comes from the fact that if you have good fuel pressure, why would you not have good oil pressure? Also oil is a heavier viscocity than gasoline which means it takes more suction to pull the oil into the fuel pump than it does to pull gas into it. Now, I know that there are certain variables that could cause oil flow to decrease ie: bad oil line, restriction of sort, low oil in tank, etc. I also know that there are no fail safe's in anything. However, OB makes a good arguement of - why play with something you have control over. Mix the oil in the fuel and know for sure you are covered - . I guess I just want to be more informed on VRO. I grew up working in marina's in the Bowleys Quarters area of MD. I have been to school for Johnson/Evenrude outboards but this was before VRO. I also worked for Johnson & Towers Detroit Diesel for six years as a marine mechanic. Finally I am also a licensed (never could spell that) electrician. I tell you this just so that you know I have somewhat of a mechanical background but, by no means am I an expert of any kind, we all can learn more. Help me to understand this subject better. Thanks <br />Brad

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

OB,<br />I read your 25lb bowling ball scenario on the other post. Good one..... I would think as long as that 26lb test line doesn't stay in the sun too long you are O.K. for a little while or hope you have a very hard head. I not only like this site for the valuable information but the analogies can be quite humorous . I also have noticed that even with disagreement, no one belittles anyone with vengence.<br />Brad

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: VRO Float

They are not nessessarily the same! Your oil pump can fail without warning, but your fuel pump side will continue to function. I've had it happen on a 1990 70 Hp Evinrude and had NO time to prevent damage. Forunatly, it was under the dealer Warranty, so they took care of the rebuild. I have since talked to many mechanics thatI trust and they almost all recommend doing away with the VRO. I did buy the Motor used from the Dealer, but it was rebuilt at the time, except for the electrical components and, of course, the VRO. I now mix my own. One less thing to worry about! Besides, I did it for 15 years, before I got the VRO Motor, so it was no big deal. It's a personal decison, but the little effort that it takes to mix your own seems insignificant to me!

 

[clanton]

Re: VRO Float

1 May 1989, Sunrise, Florida, OMC traning classes were saying major cause of powerhead was overheat and lack of lubrication. If this be true then I would want to keep it cool and insure that it always gets oil. The only way that you will be sure 100% thats its gets oil is to mix in tank and keep carbs clean. If you use the VRO, the system needs to be serviced as prescribed in the service manual, most dont get serviced. The alarm system needs to be checked to verify that it is working correctly( how many alarm problems posted on this board, does anyone evey check these systems). The self test on the OMC only tells you the horn and light is working, does not check sensor, or sensor circuit.

 

[ob]

Re: VRO Float

Brad on the vro unit oil is not pulled into the fuel pump.The unit is air motor driven via crankcase pulse hose and the oil pump half and fuel pump half are separated by housing yet driven by a common rod actuated by the air motor. the oil and fuel mix takes place after each fluid is discharged into a common port.Hope this helps to clear design characteristic question.

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

Hello everyone,<br />It's clear there is an arguement to document each side of this case. I would have to agree with Clanton, OB, Almost retired, and everyone else who feels that the VRO is a weak point with Johnson/Evenrude. While being for technology, and a proponent of electronic ignition, fuel injection, and all of the other updates that technology has been successful with, I feel that the VRO does leave an uncertain feeling. Knowing that if you mix your oil with your fuel you are safe I feel much more comfortable with this method than with VRO. I really thank everyone for there input and value each opinion. I will opt for the removal of the VRO and know I am safe. Thanks again.<br />Brad

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

OB,<br />Thanks that does help. You know, both opinions are pretty strong here. I agree with you that it's more of a personal opinion to either keep the VRO or do away with it. Have you ever asked anyone from the Coast Gaurd why they no longer use VRO? It would be a great arguement for not using the VRO, if they did do away with it for the reasons everyone has specified.<br />Brad

 

[ob]

Re: VRO Float

Brad ,I never asked anyone directly from coast guard of why they defeat vro on motors orignally equipped with them after warranty had expired on those units.Most of the motors they purchase new however are commercial grade and don't have vro from getgo.The only assumption I could arrive at are that since they are in the bussiness of rescuing people stranded at sea is that they don't use them because they are prone to failure.I can't off hand think of any other reason.

 

[bradheil]

Re: VRO Float

Thanks OB, that's good enough for me. In one of the posts I had given I mentioned something about a "Kit" for converting VRO back to the old way of mixing ( I don't know what it is, the local marina was telling me about it). I recieved some responses about not knowing of any kit yet on a different post I had read that someone had put the old style fuel pump on the newer motor. Does this need to be done or can I continue to use the existing pump?<br />Brad

 

[ob]

Re: VRO Float

I am just using the existing pump .I had contemplated changing to a conventional pump also.I was told by local johnson evinrude dealer that the vro pump as conventional was just fine to use.the standard conventional pump for 45 dollars doesn't have the bracket assy to adapt to engine and would have to be makeshifted,however seems i read on previous post that there was a conventional type available for around 100 bucks that did have the bracket.I think it was the commercial pump application.I'm simply going to run with vro pump as 50:1 pumper until it fails.